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I'm going to guess that it's not clear cut enough to mollify the folks that are screaming. The uneducated don't have a real good idea of how quickly a man with a knife can go from passive to carving you like a steak, if that was the reason for the shoot.

Javier730 wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

A person, not just a women, getting the snot beat out of them and getting slashed with a knife has the right to use whatever force necessary to stop who ever is doing that. I don't see how you can carry for self defense and not understand that. Maybe you would have a different opinion if that was one of your loved ones. I hope you never serve on a jury in domestic violence related self defense case or any self defense case for that matter.

I understand everyone's points, but I think you folks are talking past each other, at least to some extent.

Does family violence exist? Yes.
Are men the offender in most cases? Yes.
Are women sometimes the aggressor? Yes.
Do women make false allegations of abuse? Yes.
Are complaints by women almost always believed to be true? Yes.
Are false complaints used in divorces, post-divorce, and revenge settings? Yes.
Have men been falsely convicted of physical or sexual abuse? Yes.
Do these men realistically have any legal recourse? No.

Those who say "she said it, so I believe it, thus he deserved to die" ignore reality and buy into the media hype. Before someone asks, no, I've never been accused of family violence. But as a COP and attorney, I know quite well that there are people who will lie to get what they want or what they feel like they deserve. "Family violence," "sexual predator" and many other phrases are buzz words both in society and the judicial system and there are people who know how to play the system and the public.

Chas.

I think we can all agree on that. I have had the finger pointed at me once before about something I didn't do. Fortunately for me, the evidence was in my favor. I find it hard to believe that the woman would gash her own head to get the guy arrested when everyone knows saying he beat her would of sufficed. Pacing around aggressively like a caveman and fighting with the police for 20 minutes also makes me believe he was not innocent in this particular case.

People have done precisely that, i.e. injured themselves to support a false allegation. But that aside, are you saying that in the event he did assault the wife, it was okay to kill him on the scene?

I'm not saying the shooting is bad; there's not enough evidence to make that decision yet. The video looks bad, but if there's a 2nd one that shows he had a knife, then that's very significant in the decision to shoot.

Chas.

Time to quit speculating and wait for the facts.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: People have done precisely that, i.e. injured themselves to support a false allegation. But that aside, are you saying that in the event he did assault the wife, it was okay to kill him on the scene?

I'm not saying the shooting is bad; there's not enough evidence to make that decision yet. The video looks bad, but if there's a 2nd one that shows he had a knife, then that's very significant in the decision to shoot.
Chas.

In the event that he did indeed commit the assault?

One could make an educated guess that he's going to do it again based on the cycle of abuse, so the threat remains real as long as he's around. I don't think that's the legal answer, but its part of the reason I'm not at all bothered by this incident.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

A person, not just a women, getting the snot beat out of them and getting slashed with a knife has the right to use whatever force necessary to stop who ever is doing that. I don't see how you can carry for self defense and not understand that. Maybe you would have a different opinion if that was one of your loved ones. I hope you never serve on a jury in domestic violence related self defense case or any self defense case for that matter.

I understand everyone's points, but I think you folks are talking past each other, at least to some extent.

Does family violence exist? Yes.
Are men the offender in most cases? Yes.
Are women sometimes the aggressor? Yes.
Do women make false allegations of abuse? Yes.
Are complaints by women almost always believed to be true? Yes.
Are false complaints used in divorces, post-divorce, and revenge settings? Yes.
Have men been falsely convicted of physical or sexual abuse? Yes.
Do these men realistically have any legal recourse? No.

Those who say "she said it, so I believe it, thus he deserved to die" ignore reality and buy into the media hype. Before someone asks, no, I've never been accused of family violence. But as a COP and attorney, I know quite well that there are people who will lie to get what they want or what they feel like they deserve. "Family violence," "sexual predator" and many other phrases are buzz words both in society and the judicial system and there are people who know how to play the system and the public.

Chas.

I think we can all agree on that. I have had the finger pointed at me once before about something I didn't do. Fortunately for me, the evidence was in my favor. I find it hard to believe that the woman would gash her own head to get the guy arrested when everyone knows saying he beat her would of sufficed. Pacing around aggressively like a caveman and fighting with the police for 20 minutes also makes me believe he was not innocent in this particular case.

People have done precisely that, i.e. injured themselves to support a false allegation. But that aside, are you saying that in the event he did assault the wife, it was okay to kill him on the scene?

I'm not saying the shooting is bad; there's not enough evidence to make that decision yet. The video looks bad, but if there's a 2nd one that shows he had a knife, then that's very significant in the decision to shoot.

Chas.

Whether or not he beat or slashed his wife, if he posed a threat to the deputies by having a knife in his hands and making a sudden movement, I do believe the deputies had the right to shoot. Killing him would not be the intention. Stoping him would. Death would be an unfortunate side effect.

They have called in the DPS to check on whether or not he had a knife.
Ought to be obvious once he was down and out.

mojo84 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

I'm thinking about what you are saying and I don't get it, especially from someone on a CHL forum and carries a gun for self protection. The guy had a knife, she had a gash on her head and a toddler was beat. I think the woman would have been perfectly justified in shooting the guy.

Now executing him after the fact would be different regardless whether it was the woman victim or the officers. However, I don't think that is what anyone is promoting. Do you?

You're addressing the specifics of this particular shooting.....shooting a guy attacking you with a knife is a legitimate use of deadly force. I was responding to a general comment about "women out there not putting up with a man putting hands on them." Perhaps I should have only quoted that part in my response.

VMI77 wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

I'm thinking about what you are saying and I don't get it, especially from someone on a CHL forum and carries a gun for self protection. The guy had a knife, she had a gash on her head and a toddler was beat. I think the woman would have been perfectly justified in shooting the guy.

Now executing him after the fact would be different regardless whether it was the woman victim or the officers. However, I don't think that is what anyone is promoting. Do you?

You're addressing the specifics of this particular shooting.....shooting a guy attacking you with a knife is a legitimate use of deadly force. I was responding to a general comment about "women out there not putting up with a man putting hands on them." Perhaps I should have only quoted that part in my response.

Should women allow themselves to be beaten and attacked with a knife?

SA_Steve wrote:They have called in the DPS to check on whether or not he had a knife.
Ought to be obvious once he was down and out.

I regret to say I have known cops to carry "throw downs" for just this scenario.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

A person, not just a women, getting the snot beat out of them and getting slashed with a knife has the right to use whatever force necessary to stop who ever is doing that. I don't see how you can carry for self defense and not understand that. Maybe you would have a different opinion if that was one of your loved ones. I hope you never serve on a jury in domestic violence related self defense case or any self defense case for that matter.

I understand everyone's points, but I think you folks are talking past each other, at least to some extent.

Does family violence exist? Yes.
Are men the offender in most cases? Yes.
Are women sometimes the aggressor? Yes.
Do women make false allegations of abuse? Yes.
Are complaints by women almost always believed to be true? Yes.
Are false complaints used in divorces, post-divorce, and revenge settings? Yes.
Have men been falsely convicted of physical or sexual abuse? Yes.
Do these men realistically have any legal recourse? No.

Those who say "she said it, so I believe it, thus he deserved to die" ignore reality and buy into the media hype. Before someone asks, no, I've never been accused of family violence. But as a COP and attorney, I know quite well that there are people who will lie to get what they want or what they feel like they deserve. "Family violence," "sexual predator" and many other phrases are buzz words both in society and the judicial system and there are people who know how to play the system and the public.

Chas.

Yes, thank you. Exactly what I was alluding to. I was not talking about the woman in this specific incident.

Javier730 wrote: I hope you never serve on a jury in domestic violence related self defense case or any self defense case for that matter.

Not that I'm particularly anxious for jury service, but in spite of your attempt to insult me, if it's a legitimate case of self-defense it will be the prosecutor rather than the defense attorney that won't want me on the jury.

Javier730 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

I'm thinking about what you are saying and I don't get it, especially from someone on a CHL forum and carries a gun for self protection. The guy had a knife, she had a gash on her head and a toddler was beat. I think the woman would have been perfectly justified in shooting the guy.

Now executing him after the fact would be different regardless whether it was the woman victim or the officers. However, I don't think that is what anyone is promoting. Do you?

You're addressing the specifics of this particular shooting.....shooting a guy attacking you with a knife is a legitimate use of deadly force. I was responding to a general comment about "women out there not putting up with a man putting hands on them." Perhaps I should have only quoted that part in my response.

Should women allow themselves to be beaten and attacked with a knife?

Now you're just going out of your way to be insulting and obtuse. I'll help you out anyway by highlighting in red the answer to this frivolous question, which you asked in spite of the fact that it was already answered in the first sentence you quoted of my response.

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

I'm thinking about what you are saying and I don't get it, especially from someone on a CHL forum and carries a gun for self protection. The guy had a knife, she had a gash on her head and a toddler was beat. I think the woman would have been perfectly justified in shooting the guy.

Now executing him after the fact would be different regardless whether it was the woman victim or the officers. However, I don't think that is what anyone is promoting. Do you?

You're addressing the specifics of this particular shooting.....shooting a guy attacking you with a knife is a legitimate use of deadly force. I was responding to a general comment about "women out there not putting up with a man putting hands on them." Perhaps I should have only quoted that part in my response.

Should women allow themselves to be beaten and attacked with a knife?

Now you're just going out of your way to be insulting and obtuse. I'll help you out anyway by highlighting in red the answer to this frivolous question, which you asked in spite of the fact that it was already answered in the first sentence you quoted of my response.

Gentlemen,

This has gotten way out of line.

Respect and civility aren't optional on this Forum.

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

mojo84 wrote:

VMI77 wrote:

Javier730 wrote:If this guy was innocent of beating or slashing his family, why was he not giving aid to his family?

Taypo wrote:No defense here, partner. I refuse to put myself in his shoes.

Why?

Because I'm not a wife beater, nor would I do something to give me the appearance of one. There are details here that none of us know. Once we're aware of reason, record and circumstance I may prove myself wrong but I doubt it. You and I both know the media is going to make this guy out to be an angel, but I'm confident the reality is far different.

Taypo wrote:And if it was me in this situation, the cops wouldn't need to put me down on the front lawn. My wife would have done it for them. Repeatedly.

I wish their were more women out there like this who would not put up with a man putting there hands on them. The woman in this story should of been the one that shot this guy when he was attacking her, not the deputies.

One thing I am sure of, he will never hit a woman again.

Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

I'm thinking about what you are saying and I don't get it, especially from someone on a CHL forum and carries a gun for self protection. The guy had a knife, she had a gash on her head and a toddler was beat. I think the woman would have been perfectly justified in shooting the guy.

Now executing him after the fact would be different regardless whether it was the woman victim or the officers. However, I don't think that is what anyone is promoting. Do you?

You're addressing the specifics of this particular shooting.....shooting a guy attacking you with a knife is a legitimate use of deadly force. I was responding to a general comment about "women out there not putting up with a man putting hands on them." Perhaps I should have only quoted that part in my response.

Should women allow themselves to be beaten and attacked with a knife?

Now you're just going out of your way to be insulting and obtuse. I'll help you out anyway by highlighting in red the answer to this frivolous question, which you asked in spite of the fact that it was already answered in the first sentence you quoted of my response.

So to your response to the comment, "women out there not putting up with a man putting hands on them", what is your opinion on that? Should a woman wait until the man stops beating her and then call the police? Should they gamble with their lives and hope the beating does not cause their death. If someone is beating me, I am not going wait for them to decide I had enough. If I can stop it, I will. Women should do the same whether its some random attacker or their spouse.

VMI77 wrote:Think about what you're saying.....men don't have a monopoly on crazy. That logic sounds like open season for crazy women. At what point are you suggesting a woman should get a pass for shooting and killing a boyfriend or husband? How much putting on of hands begets the death penalty? All women are not fragile and precious little angels who never lie.

I'm not trying to argue with you or insult you in any way. What you posted is why I made comments you took offensive. What I said and what you understood are completely different.

You mentioned that not all women are fragile and previous little angels who lie. That's true, but there are some women out there who get beaten. Those beating could result in death. They should not have to wait until their abuser decides to use a weapon on them to use deadly force and they should not lose their right to defend themselves from domestic violence just because there are lying women out there.

Do we really want a society where law enforcement is indeed the judge and execution squad? I'm NOT saying that IS what happened....I'm not...but if I hear correctly what some have hinted at in this thread is that if a law enforcement officer thinks you might possibly be a threat, or if you have been reported as having done something, they can shoot you down just to be rid of you. Am I reading that right? I hope not.