Just pulled over, 2 tickets...

[NcongruNt]

CHL/LEO: Scary and disturbing.

I didn't mean to get this thread off on such a tangent.

I don't really have a problem with the front license plate requirement. I've been guilty in the past of not having it, just like many others here. I don't think I ever had a front plate on my 260Z the entire time I drove it. There wasn't really a good place to stick it. In retrospect and looking at the pictures, it looks like I might have been able to rig up some mounting hardware where there looks to be holes in the bumper. If I recall correctly, I couldn't find an immediate way of mounting it, and never got around to figuring something out. Here's a picture:



This is problematic with a lot of sports cars, both practically and aesthetically. Back when the size of a license plate was standardized many decades ago, cars were shaped a little differently, and a front plate had significatly more space than they do on many modern vehicles. Many European countries allow an alternatively-sized smaller plate to be placed on the front of the vehicle to address this issue. The shape of the plates over there in general is more conducive to fitting in an area with restricted height.

I don't see this as a pressing problem that absolutely needs to be addressed with immediately legislative action, but it would be nice to modernize license plates to more properly fit the design of vehicles produced in the past several decades.

[hi-power]

A co-worker owns Vette like this one. He was not stopped for "no front license plate", but for speeding. The "no front license plate" was a bonus ticket.

Besides ugly-ing up the front end, he'd have to drill holes and bend the plate to get it to attach where the cutout is.

NcongruNt, I don't know what the answer is, but there should be some sort of recourse or leniency if your car was not designed to allow for a front license plate.

[seamusTX]

In the U.K., the government does not make license plates. They tell you what your number is; you get the plate made. Car dealers can make standard plates that meet the size and visibility requirements, but some people get them made from exotic materials.

You could probably get a custom plate for any car.

BTW, if you're in the U.K. for a stay of more than a few days, you can get a vanity plate made as a souvenir.

- Jim

[dozerboy]

To those in the know, does sticking the plate on your dash up against the windshield count?

Nope it doesn't.

[Flatland2D]

To those in the know, does sticking the plate on your dash up against the windshield count?

Nope it doesn't.

Is there a reason for that? I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, I'm just wondering if maybe it's implied that the front of a car is not its windshield. Just looking for further clarification. Thanks.

[texasag93]

Have you ever conducted a traffic stop from the front? Or don't you generally run plates from behind?

Not sure if I understand the first part of your question but if you mean have I ever initiated a traffic stop by observing a front plate - yes. And I have initiated quite a few more by not observing a front plate but that's understood so I will attempt to address your questions and several others that have posted since yours.

In Dallas there are quite a few opportunities during a shift where we're sitting at a traffic light and will run "front" plates of cars that are either coming toward us or crossing in front of us. The officer driving will call out plate numbers as fast as the other officer can type it in and hit the transmit button. We don't even read the response on the computer screen - we just listen for the audible cue that tells us we've just run a car that has warrants associated with it or is stolen. I cannot tell you how many stops I have initiated (and arrests that I've made) just off of hits from the front plates.

Also, when there is a line of cars coming at you during heavy traffic you can't turn and get the rear plate ID because they are running so close together. One other tidbit - lots of times it's easier to read a plate coming at you than moving away. "R"s, "B"s, "8"s all look similar at a distance. When they're coming toward you it gives you a chance to verify what you thought you saw at a distance.

A new device that's just come on the market (it's already here in the DFW area) is a camera that is mounted in the patrol car which scans every license plate it sees (coming and going) and instantly runs it for hits. It is unbelievable how fast this is and we don't have to type in anything - it's all done automatically and then it announces to us any hits it got including the description of the car it just ran and the plate number. The cameras are able to read up to 4 lanes of traffic with a single vehicle. They can read over 10,000 plates in just one shift. Hopefully you can see how this would benefit an officer in trying to recover a stolen vehicle or perhaps a kidnapped child where time is of the essence.

More info:
http://www.remingtonelsag.com/mobile-system.htm

Some people have also replied that Texas is one of the few states that still requires a front plate. If I recall correctly I remember reading somewhere that Texas is one of the majority of states that require a front plate.

While we're addressing license plates let me add one more bit of information - some of you might have recently seen seven digit Texas plates on the road and thought they were bogus (kind of like some LEOs did when they first saw them ). Texas has now joined CA as a 7-digit plate state.

........do not try to use this as just another "it's for the children" thing.

I am against big brother watching me anywhere. Just wait until they outlaw guns and they grab us on the road (using this or another technology) before we can get home.

[mcub]

I've been driving my car for over two years with no front license plate. I didn't know anyone actually got pulled over for something like this (though I do know it isn't exactly legal). To those in the know, does sticking the plate on your dash up against the windshield count?

What I've picked up from work, its general stated that in court, only two plates, unobstructioned mounted where the vehicle maker intended them to be "counts".
On the side of the street, it's mostly the officer’s call, I've heard of our drivers getting tickets for dirt and others only getting warning for missing both og them.

[mcub]

........do not try to use this as just another "it's for the children" thing.

I am against big brother watching me anywhere. Just wait until they outlaw guns and they grab us on the road (using this or another technology) before we can get home.

This is just the first early installment of what some people refer to as "passive active surveillance� The ramifications for good and bad are tremendous on both the sides. It going to be fun and freighting to watch the positions play with it.

[srothstein]

The reason the plate in the windshield does not count is that the law requires the plate to be "attached" to the vehicle. This means mounted to the vehilce in a manner to stop a person from just switching the plates to another car at will.

I have never seen it claimed that is has to be where the manufacturer put the attachment, and have seen it mounted in a variety of places. When my son got a ticket for not having the plate on the front (DPS trooper did not care that it was in the front seat mounted on the attachment that had gotten knocked off in an accident three days earlier), I mounted it by using quick tie wraps on the grill. That has worked for the four or five years since then.

Incidentally, the rear plate must be attached also AND must have a white lamp shining on it. There are a lot of trucks and vans with multiple mounting spaces (spare tire, lamp mount, bumper, etc.) but not all of them have the proper light.

[mcub]

I have never seen it claimed that is has to be where the manufacturer put the attachment, and have seen it mounted in a variety of places.

Actually in a written form, neither have I, I think the Safety people where going back to what you can be absolutely certain will work, consider I've never actually seem a written statement to the Texas legal definition of "Front of Vehicle" I think it’s a safe bet bolted to front side fender would not work.

Kind of like one should be able to travel with a gun in Texas, but as for as making that defense work, that’s another story.

It wasn’t my plan to imply that was the law, only my employer’s belief of the only certain way to avoid the hassle, if that makes sense?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Have you ever conducted a traffic stop from the front? Or don't you generally run plates from behind?

Not sure if I understand the first part of your question but if you mean have I ever initiated a traffic stop by observing a front plate - yes. And I have initiated quite a few more by not observing a front plate but that's understood so I will attempt to address your questions and several others that have posted since yours.

In Dallas there are quite a few opportunities during a shift where we're sitting at a traffic light and will run "front" plates of cars that are either coming toward us or crossing in front of us. The officer driving will call out plate numbers as fast as the other officer can type it in and hit the transmit button. We don't even read the response on the computer screen - we just listen for the audible cue that tells us we've just run a car that has warrants associated with it or is stolen. I cannot tell you how many stops I have initiated (and arrests that I've made) just off of hits from the front plates.

Also, when there is a line of cars coming at you during heavy traffic you can't turn and get the rear plate ID because they are running so close together. One other tidbit - lots of times it's easier to read a plate coming at you than moving away. "R"s, "B"s, "8"s all look similar at a distance. When they're coming toward you it gives you a chance to verify what you thought you saw at a distance.

A new device that's just come on the market (it's already here in the DFW area) is a camera that is mounted in the patrol car which scans every license plate it sees (coming and going) and instantly runs it for hits. It is unbelievable how fast this is and we don't have to type in anything - it's all done automatically and then it announces to us any hits it got including the description of the car it just ran and the plate number. The cameras are able to read up to 4 lanes of traffic with a single vehicle. They can read over 10,000 plates in just one shift. Hopefully you can see how this would benefit an officer in trying to recover a stolen vehicle or perhaps a kidnapped child where time is of the essence.

More info:
http://www.remingtonelsag.com/mobile-system.htm

Some people have also replied that Texas is one of the few states that still requires a front plate. If I recall correctly I remember reading somewhere that Texas is one of the majority of states that require a front plate.

While we're addressing license plates let me add one more bit of information - some of you might have recently seen seven digit Texas plates on the road and thought they were bogus (kind of like some LEOs did when they first saw them ). Texas has now joined CA as a 7-digit plate state.

........do not try to use this as just another "it's for the children" thing.

He didn't.

Chas.

[jimlongley]

Don't red light, toll way and speeding cams image the front plate as well as the rear?

If they cant image your plate, they can't generate revenue.

No, the red light cameras are mounted in such a way as to only image the rear of the vehicle.

[Skipper5]

It looks as if 520.404 (two license plates) replaces the old Vernon law...requiring front tag.

LEO told me that front tag missing is used alot for pulling over suspecious vehicle...similar to rear brake light, etc. He picked up on the expired inspection when he can up to your window....

as TXI states...show remedies to both and prolly everything will be dropped there.

too bad for stop and gl

[CHL/LEO]

do not try to use this as just another "it's for the children" thing.

Thanks Chas - I was going to respond to Texasag93's post but you already took care of it. Somehow though I don't think it would have mattered much what my response would have been...

[KBCraig]

Wow... now this is a timely article for this thread!

http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2 ... e-for.html

Friday, July 20, 2007
If you don't have probable cause just fabricate it, say drug enforcers and some TX prosecutors
Speaking of informants, on the Texas prosecutors' user forum a self-identified DEA agent named Bill sought to justify a traffic stop where drugs were found using probable cause agents had overtly fabricated. They didn't want to admit in court they were acting an a possibly unreliable informant, so took the liberty of manufacturing probable cause for a traffic stop by stealing the front license plate from the car the suspect was driving. Here's his story:

(read the rest at the link above)