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My 2 cents...The LEO should have pulled the guy over instead and crushed his finger. Law enforcement deserves more respect than that.

Take Down Sicko wrote:My 2 cents...The LEO should have pulled the guy over instead and crushed his finger. Law enforcement deserves more respect than that.

There was no indication the Ranger was a LEO.....he was in an unmarked truck and certainly wasn't acting like a LEO.

Take Down Sicko wrote:My 2 cents...The LEO should have pulled the guy over instead and crushed his finger. Law enforcement deserves more respect than that.

This is just wrong on so many levels!

OlBill wrote: Is that what the Ranger did? Or did he attempt to prevent road rage with road rage?

What this Ranger did was unacceptable. No doubt about it. I am not trying to defend his actions as they were.

On the recording, the DPS officer told the Round Rock officer that the driver "goes around me real fast, shoots me the bird then sideswipes my truck". That last part wasn't true--he did not sideswipe the truck--lie #1. Ranger states he only got out of his truck to talk to the driver, he demanded he get out of his vehicle, the driver put the car in reverse, and fearing for his safety he THEN pulled his gun. The driver's recording to the 911 operator shows he already had his gun drawn when he got out of his truck--lie #2. After the Round Rock officer is on scene Ranger says "he didn't strike my vehicle--I took evasive action to miss him." RR officer asks did he cross the center line? Ranger says "I don't think he did. No". The driver may have acted foolishly but by the Ranger's own statements he did not do anything he could be cited for. He said to RR officer, "I want him cited, but there's nothing good to cite him for." Looks pretty clear cut to me that the Ranger lost his temper and went way over the line and abused his authority. If not for the driver having the 911 call on record, this situation could have ended MUCH differently. The RR officer realized what had happened and the driver was sent on his way without any enforcement action taken. Ranger Smith was promoted to Ranger two months earlier. At the very least, he should be demoted and undergo psychiatric evaluation before resuming regular duties.

Take Down Sicko wrote:My 2 cents...The LEO should have pulled the guy over instead and crushed his finger. Law enforcement deserves more respect than that.

Even while in the military, I felt that respect was earned, not given or demanded. The driver was a jerk who was driving aggressively and acting extremely rudely.

The Ranger was also out of line from the time he stepped out of his truck. Behavior like that won't earn any respect.

IMO, of course.

Jeff B.

Keeps getting better. Imagine now that you did what this ranger had done in terms of pulling your gun out (class b plus maybe even deadly conduct charge), and then giving false statements to LE (another charge). Yes, you'd be in some mess.


Now, suppose this had happened to you again for a moment. You're driving, you get little frustrated and foolishly give someone a bird. Next thing you know the other person not only gives you a bird back but now has a gun drawn.
At this time you have no idea that this dipstick is LE, much less a ranger by his conduct etc.

What would you do? As stupidly as you've acted, you didn't pull your gun out. He did. At this point in my opinion, he becomes the aggressor and you have the right to use force, deadly if necessary, to stop what you perceive to be a deadly threat to you.


So, I am glad nobody got hurt except the DPS Ranger reputation as a body of whole, but this character should not only be demoted, he should lose his job (you'd probably lose yours and your freedom potentially), face a misdemeanor penalty at least, and an official letter of apology should be issued to the civilian person who will likely never view any LE officer with a shred of respect, and that's a shame as most that I know personally are exemplary human beings through and through.

Message has to be sent from the top that as LEO's, especially Ranger, you better be an example and an advocate on how someone ought to behave and conduct ones self in public eye.

parabelum wrote:
Message has to be sent from the top that as LEO's, especially Ranger, you better be an example and an advocate on how someone ought to behave and conduct ones self in public eye.

I prefaced my opinion that he be demoted and evaluated with "at the very least". A couple of other scenarios could have easily occurred: I suspect that IF the driver had stepped out of his car, as Ranger Smith was demanding he do, and there had not been a 911 recording, he would have probably wound up face down on the ground with cuffs on, with multiple bruises and lacerations and a charge of resisting arrest and assaulting an LEO and wound up in jail facing enhanced felony charges with no defense other than to claim the Texas Ranger was lying. Second scenario: imagine if the roles had been reversed--the civilian somehow makes the officer pull over and steps out of the car yelling with a gun in his hand. He is DEAD on the spot, and the officer claims he had no choice and was in fear of his life. No charges would ever be filed.

talltex wrote:

parabelum wrote:
Message has to be sent from the top that as LEO's, especially Ranger, you better be an example and an advocate on how someone ought to behave and conduct ones self in public eye.

I prefaced my opinion that he be demoted and evaluated with "at the very least". A couple of other scenarios could have easily occurred: I suspect that IF the driver had stepped out of his car, as Ranger Smith was demanding he do, and there had not been a 911 recording, he would have probably wound up face down on the ground with cuffs on, with multiple bruises and lacerations and a charge of resisting arrest and assaulting an LEO and wound up in jail facing enhanced felony charges with no defense other than to claim the Texas Ranger was lying. Second scenario: imagine if the roles had been reversed--the civilian somehow makes the officer pull over and steps out of the car yelling with a gun in his hand. He is DEAD on the spot, and the officer claims he had no choice and was in fear of his life. No charges would ever be filed.

Or the other possibility. Citizen does what he is supposed to do when facing a road rage situation. He attempts to remove himself from the situation by driving away. Road raging Ranger eventually boxes the citizen in and he is forced to use deadly force to defend himself. One or both ends up dead.

I agree with the poster above that respect is earned. And actions like the Ranger took, or the physical assault suggested above ("crush his finger") do nothing to earn anyone's respect.

talltex wrote:

parabelum wrote:
Message has to be sent from the top that as LEO's, especially Ranger, you better be an example and an advocate on how someone ought to behave and conduct ones self in public eye.

I prefaced my opinion that he be demoted and evaluated with "at the very least". A couple of other scenarios could have easily occurred: I suspect that IF the driver had stepped out of his car, as Ranger Smith was demanding he do, and there had not been a 911 recording, he would have probably wound up face down on the ground with cuffs on, with multiple bruises and lacerations and a charge of resisting arrest and assaulting an LEO and wound up in jail facing enhanced felony charges with no defense other than to claim the Texas Ranger was lying. Second scenario: imagine if the roles had been reversed--the civilian somehow makes the officer pull over and steps out of the car yelling with a gun in his hand. He is DEAD on the spot, and the officer claims he had no choice and was in fear of his life. No charges would ever be filed.

Third Sinerio- I see a man approaching with a weapon, I exit my vehicle, fire and kill him...... I go to jail for killing a Ranger.

WTR wrote:

talltex wrote:

parabelum wrote:
Message has to be sent from the top that as LEO's, especially Ranger, you better be an example and an advocate on how someone ought to behave and conduct ones self in public eye.

I prefaced my opinion that he be demoted and evaluated with "at the very least". A couple of other scenarios could have easily occurred: I suspect that IF the driver had stepped out of his car, as Ranger Smith was demanding he do, and there had not been a 911 recording, he would have probably wound up face down on the ground with cuffs on, with multiple bruises and lacerations and a charge of resisting arrest and assaulting an LEO and wound up in jail facing enhanced felony charges with no defense other than to claim the Texas Ranger was lying. Second scenario: imagine if the roles had been reversed--the civilian somehow makes the officer pull over and steps out of the car yelling with a gun in his hand. He is DEAD on the spot, and the officer claims he had no choice and was in fear of his life. No charges would ever be filed.

Third Sinerio- I see a man approaching with a weapon, I exit my vehicle, fire and kill him...... I go to jail for killing a Ranger.

This is why it is a good idea to try and escape a road rage scenario. If possible, drive to a location where witnesses and / or security cameras will be present to make sure there is a record of all actions.

Soccerdad1995 wrote: This is why it is a good idea to try and escape a road rage scenario. If possible, drive to a location where witnesses and / or security cameras will be present to make sure there is a record of all actions.

IMO, if you get pulled over by an unmarked vehicle, an out of uniform person gets out with a gun drawn, I am driving away and calling 911 as I do.

MechAg94 wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote: IMO, if you get pulled over by an unmarked vehicle, an out of uniform person gets out with a gun drawn, I am driving away and calling 911 as I do.

Assuming you have time to drive away. If the other guy already has his gun drawn and you start driving, you may be dodging bullets as you do so.

RossA wrote:

MechAg94 wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote: IMO, if you get pulled over by an unmarked vehicle, an out of uniform person gets out with a gun drawn, I am driving away and calling 911 as I do.

Assuming you have time to drive away. If the other guy already has his gun drawn and you start driving, you may be dodging bullets as you do so.

I still think this is probably a decent course of action as opposed to exiting your own vehicle. If the BG is directly behind your vehicle, then you will be exposed to his fire as you exit. If your vehicle is turned such that you can use it as cover, then I could see the benefit of exiting and returning fire.

Of course, if you are boxed in, you may have no choice but to exit and engage in a firefight with the armed assailant.

RossA wrote:

MechAg94 wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote: IMO, if you get pulled over by an unmarked vehicle, an out of uniform person gets out with a gun drawn, I am driving away and calling 911 as I do.

Assuming you have time to drive away. If the other guy already has his gun drawn and you start driving, you may be dodging bullets as you do so.

Driving away would probably still be the best option. If the other guy is willing to shoot at a fleeing car then he will probably shoot at someone exiting the car. Sitting there and hoping for the best isn't an option.

"In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing."
-Theodore Roosevelt