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Flightmare wrote:Dems looking to tack on gun-control to this bill.

https://www.facebook.com/RepThomasMassi ... 9172384905

To recap, what are some clues that you should be concerned with the fix-NICS bill?

(1) The first sentence after the title of the bill reads “Section 103 of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (34 U.S.C. 40901) is amended…”
(2) Senators Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer are cosponsors in the Senate.
(3) It’s being rammed through, without a hearing, in a very nontransparent process, and it will be passed by attaching it to the popular concealed carry reciprocity bill which already has enough votes to pass on its own.
(4) It spends over half a billion dollars to collect more names to include in a list of people who will never be allowed to own a firearm.
(5) It compels administrative agencies, not just courts, to adjudicate your second amendment rights.

Hmmmm. Hard to see how the very R House allows bad stuff to pass in that manner. If it takes strengthening NICS to pass reciprocity in the senate I'd be cautiously OK with it. However, point 5 above would need to be fixed. It's unconstitutional.

Watching. Thanks.

Thanks for the heads up.

I don't want reciprocity any where near bad enough to allow the attached garbage to be passed. It's like one step forward and two steps back. Time to say no unless it is cleaned of attachments. Letting my rep and senators know.

New article on Fox news. For some reason, I can not post link!
“The bill has 213 cosponsors, including three Democrats, and backing from 24 state attorneys general.”

2farnorth wrote:I don't want reciprocity any where near bad enough to allow the attached garbage to be passed. It's like one step forward and two steps back. Time to say no unless it is cleaned of attachments. Letting my rep and senators know.

Here are some comments I posted about this on another forum...

RoyGBiv wrote:There is certainly valid reason for concern, however, there is nothing in the proposed 4477 that makes it any easier than it is today (IMO) for agencies to try such tomfoolery. The SSA under Obama has already tried it and been shot down.

SSA says.... https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...ts-act-of-2007
Congress says...: https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017...ve-gun-control
Joint resolution: https://www.congress.gov/115/plaws/p...W-115publ8.pdf

I understand people being wary of Congress and the various Federal agencies fiddling with concealed carry law.... but... 4477 does not add any new authority for them to do so. I respectfully recommend that you ask your congresspeople to support HR 38 and 4477, or the combined floor versions and their counterparts in the Senate.



This is my personal opinion.

ETA: Here is a link to the version of the two bills that were voted out of committee. I urge you to read 4477 carefully if you have any concerns. IMO, fear mongering from some pundits is just that, fear mongering, and not based in fact.
http://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/201 ... 115-45.pdf (opens PDF)

If you want to read the committee transcript, start at page 313 in the link below (opens PDF)... There is NOTHING in the transcript that suggests that even the D's are asking for rule-making authority that circumvents the requirements for adjudication.
https://judiciary.house.gov/wp-content/ ... script.pdf

ETA2: HR 4477 was introduced by TX Congressman Culberson (R) and is co-sponsored by several other R's (McCaul (TX), Comstock (VA), Costello (PA)), all of whom are NRA-A rated.

If things go well in the Senate, this could be like a concealed carry wedding day... let's not get cold feet getting it across the finish line.

Another quote crossposted from another forum... Not my quote, but I share the opinion expressed.

I've never understood how having some form of federal concealed carry reciprocity makes it easier for a future anti-gun Congress to enact gun control. LEOSA and the interstate transportation provision of FOPA haven't been used to create some broad scheme regarding carry by active and retired LEOs or firearm transportation.

I have read that Senator Schumer supports the "fix NICS" thing. Senator Schumer HATES law-abiding firearms owners, despises the 2nd Amendment, and would NEVER vote for ANY sort of bill that had anything positive to it concerning firearms. If he is indeed supporting that, then there MUST be something anti-2A and anti-firearms in it.

K.Mooneyham wrote:I have read that Senator Schumer supports the "fix NICS" thing. Senator Schumer HATES law-abiding firearms owners, despises the 2nd Amendment, and would NEVER vote for ANY sort of bill that had anything positive to it concerning firearms. If he is indeed supporting that, then there MUST be something anti-2A and anti-firearms in it.

I give up.

RoyGBiv wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:I have read that Senator Schumer supports the "fix NICS" thing. Senator Schumer HATES law-abiding firearms owners, despises the 2nd Amendment, and would NEVER vote for ANY sort of bill that had anything positive to it concerning firearms. If he is indeed supporting that, then there MUST be something anti-2A and anti-firearms in it.

I give up.

Is there any untruth to what I stated?

K.Mooneyham wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:I have read that Senator Schumer supports the "fix NICS" thing. Senator Schumer HATES law-abiding firearms owners, despises the 2nd Amendment, and would NEVER vote for ANY sort of bill that had anything positive to it concerning firearms. If he is indeed supporting that, then there MUST be something anti-2A and anti-firearms in it.

I give up.

Is there any untruth to what I stated?

Yes, there is. The bill will create national reciprocity. Show us the anti-gun provisions.

Chas.

K.Mooneyham wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:I have read that Senator Schumer supports the "fix NICS" thing. Senator Schumer HATES law-abiding firearms owners, despises the 2nd Amendment, and would NEVER vote for ANY sort of bill that had anything positive to it concerning firearms. If he is indeed supporting that, then there MUST be something anti-2A and anti-firearms in it.

I give up.

Is there any untruth to what I stated?

Yes... This part... "there MUST be something anti-2A and anti-firearms in it"

Look at it this way....
-- The D's try to pass new laws and new restrictions.
-- The R's say "you just need to enforce the existing laws"
-- The D's say... "Well, how did that guy in Sutherland Springs get his guns, we need to stop that!"
-- The R's say... "I'll take that challenge... How about we pass a law that says the existing NICS laws are not voluntary, put some performance benchmarks in it and provide funding for training?"

How does Schumer or Pelosi vote against that?

The "camels nose under the tent" argument is not at all applicable to this discussion. IMO.
The feds are not a camel, they are an elephant, and they are already completely inside the tent.
4477 adds no new Federal rule-making authority.

HR 38 ... ?

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:I have read that Senator Schumer supports the "fix NICS" thing. Senator Schumer HATES law-abiding firearms owners, despises the 2nd Amendment, and would NEVER vote for ANY sort of bill that had anything positive to it concerning firearms. If he is indeed supporting that, then there MUST be something anti-2A and anti-firearms in it.

I give up.

Is there any untruth to what I stated?

Yes, there is. The bill will create national reciprocity. Show us the anti-gun provisions.

Chas.

Mr. Cotton, I saw a story by Congressman Massie stating that the two bills would be merged. Either the bill would pass and allow agencies to add names to NICS denials without adjudication, or the bill would not pass and thus national reciprocity would be killed. Either way the Democrats get something they want. I'm never quite sure what links are okay here because I know some sites don't have reputable programming, so I didn't want to post a link to the story. Is the merger NOT true? YOU I trust on this, if you say that isn't so.

I know the merged bills are making many question. No one wants the Feds involved in state gun laws/regulations/rules. Come on, New Jersey rules in Texas? Heaven help us all. But, If I can go to my son's Navy base in New England and not have to disarm on the way...., that's a huge step forward in regaining what has been stripped of our 2A rights.

The argument against federal agencies being able to put someone on the NICS list without adjudication by a court is valid IMHO. Clerical errors, mistaken identity, and political malice are valid concerns. But guess what, the ATFE can pretty much take your guns now anytime they want and they have a history of making terrible, terrible errors.

K.Mooneyham wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:I have read that Senator Schumer supports the "fix NICS" thing. Senator Schumer HATES law-abiding firearms owners, despises the 2nd Amendment, and would NEVER vote for ANY sort of bill that had anything positive to it concerning firearms. If he is indeed supporting that, then there MUST be something anti-2A and anti-firearms in it.

I give up.

Is there any untruth to what I stated?

Yes, there is. The bill will create national reciprocity. Show us the anti-gun provisions.

Chas.

Mr. Cotton, I saw a story by Congressman Massie stating that the two bills would be merged. Either the bill would pass and allow agencies to add names to NICS denials without adjudication, or the bill would not pass and thus national reciprocity would be killed. Either way the Democrats get something they want. I'm never quite sure what links are okay here because I know some sites don't have reputable programming, so I didn't want to post a link to the story. Is the merger NOT true? YOU I trust on this, if you say that isn't so.

WHY MERGE these two bills??? Democrats have the entire republican party in their pocket! They will merge these two bills and STILL NOT GET A SINGLE DEMOCRAT TO VOTE ON IT!!!!
when will these loosers in the house and senate get it. Its very embarrassing!!!!!

K.Mooneyham wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:

RoyGBiv wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:I have read that Senator Schumer supports the "fix NICS" thing. Senator Schumer HATES law-abiding firearms owners, despises the 2nd Amendment, and would NEVER vote for ANY sort of bill that had anything positive to it concerning firearms. If he is indeed supporting that, then there MUST be something anti-2A and anti-firearms in it.

I give up.

Is there any untruth to what I stated?

Yes, there is. The bill will create national reciprocity. Show us the anti-gun provisions.

Chas.

Mr. Cotton, I saw a story by Congressman Massie stating that the two bills would be merged. Either the bill would pass and allow agencies to add names to NICS denials without adjudication, or the bill would not pass and thus national reciprocity would be killed. Either way the Democrats get something they want. I'm never quite sure what links are okay here because I know some sites don't have reputable programming, so I didn't want to post a link to the story. Is the merger NOT true? YOU I trust on this, if you say that isn't so.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/2017120 ... n-congress