Stray bullet fired by police officer kills 5 year old boy

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Charles L. Cotton
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Post by Charles L. Cotton »

phddan wrote:
The Norman Transcript wrote:Report on Noble shooting sent to D.A.
The Norman Transcript

Transcript Staff Writer

Mashburn, speaking to a Norman Business Association meeting Aug. 24, said the decision he faces will be "one of the hardest things I've ever had to do as a prosecutor."

He said he would be meeting with the young victim's family and that would have some bearing on his decision.


Julianna Parker

366-3550

jparker@normantranscript.com


Stonewalling at its finest.
I can't believe the prosecutor is going to let the opinions of the victim's family influence his decision on whether to prosecute! I'm also surprised that he would admit that in the paper. Why not just let them serve on the jury as well?

Chas.
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Post by Wildscar »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
phddan wrote:
The Norman Transcript wrote:Report on Noble shooting sent to D.A.
The Norman Transcript

Transcript Staff Writer

Mashburn, speaking to a Norman Business Association meeting Aug. 24, said the decision he faces will be "one of the hardest things I've ever had to do as a prosecutor."

He said he would be meeting with the young victim's family and that would have some bearing on his decision.


Julianna Parker

366-3550

jparker@normantranscript.com


Stonewalling at its finest.
I can't believe the prosecutor is going to let the opinions of the victim's family influence his decision on whether to prosecute! I'm also surprised that he would admit that in the paper. Why not just let them serve on the jury as well?

Chas.
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Post by KBCraig »

phddan wrote:Report on Noble shooting sent to D.A.
The Norman Transcript

Mashburn, speaking to a Norman Business Association meeting Aug. 24, said the decision he faces will be "one of the hardest things I've ever had to do as a prosecutor."
That in itself says a lot. If it was anyone other than a police officer who fired the shots, DA Mashburn wouldn't be agonizing at all: the obvious charges are manslaughter and reckless endangerment (just using generic terms, since I don't know OK law), and they would have already been filed.

Not to mention, the shooter's name and face would have been all over the news. There is no valid reason for a uniformed officer's identity to remain secret when involved in something like this.
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Post by hoss4570 »

Bad stuff.................
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Post by phddan »

Noble officers charged

By Tom Blakey

Transcript Staff Writer

Prosecutors filed second-degree manslaughter charges Friday against two Noble police officers in an accidental shooting Aug. 3 that claimed the life of 5-year-old Austin Haley of Noble.

Brad Rogers, 34, and Shawn Richardson, 29, are expected to turn themselves in to authorities next week, said Cleveland County District Attorney Greg Mashburn.

Rogers, who had been on the Noble police force about one month, reportedly twice fired a .357 semi-automatic handgun in a residential area, attempting to shoot a snake in a birdhouse. One of the two shots struck Austin Haley in the head while he was fishing at a nearby pond with family members.

Sgt. Richardson was the supervising officer at the scene, Mashburn said.

“I take no pleasure in the decision. Although this event was accidental, with reasonable care and caution the death of a child could have been avoided,� he said.

Mashburn said he “thoroughly reviewed� OSBI reports and “personally walked� the scene of the shooting.

The second-degree manslaughter is based upon “culpable negligence,� Mashburn said.

“Culpable negligence is defined as the omission to do something a reasonably careful person would do. Based on my review of the OSBI report and my viewing of the scene, I concluded these officers failed to do something that a reasonably careful person would do by firing a weapon at a non-poisonous snake that was stuck in a birdhouse without knowing what lay behind their location,� he said.

Mashburn said he looked at other cases involving accidental deaths, and determined there “must be some level of accountability for the officers involved.�

Austin’s parents and grandparents attended Mashburn’s afternoon press conference at the Cleveland County Office Building.

“Their decision to shoot the gun was hasty, I believe,� said the boy’s father, Jack Haley. Haley said he would like to see Rogers and Richardson permanently removed from the force.

Austin’s grandfather, Jack Tracy, said he was “pleased� with Mashburn’s decision.

“We’re sad over the situation — it’s hard for everyone involved. What the officers did was extremely negligent. It showed utter disregard for the safety of citizens and the surrounding community.�

Jack Tracy and his grandson were standing next to each other on a fishing dock at a pond in a heavily wooded area, when the officers arrived at a nearby residence to investigate a report of a snake hanging from a birdhouse.

According to court documents, “Tracy heard a gunshot from somewhere behind him and he saw a splash in the water about three or four feet in front of him. He yelled for whomever was shooting to stop shooting. A few seconds later he heard another gunshot and his grandson Austin Haley fell on the boat dock with blood spurting out of his forehead.�

Tracy put his grandson in an ATV and drove to where Austin’s father was, at the north end of the property, the report states.

The two officers first attempted to remove the large black snake from the birdhouse using “a yard implement handle and a police asp baton,� but were unsuccessful. The snake was hanging, headfirst, approximately one foot and 10 inches out of the birdhouse entrance, hissing at the officers, the OSBI report states.

Richardson told the other officers, “I guess we’ll have to shoot it.� The officers then asked a neighbor if there was anything in the area behind and east of the residences, and were told it “was all field and there was nothing in the heavily wooded area.�

Richardson then told Rogers to kneel down so he could shoot at the snake. An eyewitness said she heard the officers “discuss shooting toward a large tree, which she understood to mean they wanted to use the tree to stop the bullets.�

Within a few seconds after the second shot was fired, the officers said they heard someone screaming from the wooded area southeast of the back yard. They ran to the back of the residence, jumped over a fence and came upon the ATV, with Austin lying in the back and Jack Haley screaming that his son had been shot, according to court documents.

Austin was taken to Norman Regional Hospital, where he was pronounced dead.

Contacted Friday, Noble City Manager Bob Wade said the employment status of the officers would be decided “in the near future,� after an internal inquiry of the shooting death is completed.

Tom Blakey

366-3540

tblakey@normantranscript.com



I thought there were three officers involved.
And why the wait to let them turn themselves in.

Dan
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Post by flintknapper »

phddan wrote:Noble officers charged

Sgt. Richardson was the supervising officer at the scene, Mashburn said.

The two officers first attempted to remove the large black snake from the birdhouse using “a yard implement handle and a police asp baton,� but were unsuccessful. The snake was hanging, headfirst, approximately one foot and 10 inches out of the birdhouse entrance, hissing at the officers, the OSBI report states.

Richardson told the other officers, “I guess we’ll have to shoot it.� The officers then asked a neighbor if there was anything in the area behind and east of the residences, and were told it “was all field and there was nothing in the heavily wooded area.�

Richardson then told Rogers to kneel down so he could shoot at the snake. An eyewitness said she heard the officers “discuss shooting toward a large tree, which she understood to mean they wanted to use the tree to stop the bullets.�

This is a tragic event for all involved.

It is the unfortunate result of poor decision making on several levels.

It seems to me...."Sgt. Richardson" was not using his head on this one!

You don't have to be a ballistics expert to know that a bullet from a .357 Sig. can travel a great distance (even at modest elevations). Well over a mile actually!



JBM Maximum Distance Output
Input Data
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.141 G1 Bullet Weight: 125.00 gr

Muzzle Velocity: 1400.0 ft/s

Temperature: 85.00 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Humidity: 80.0 % Altitude: 2800 ft

Std. Atmosphere at Altitude: No Corrected Pressure: Yes
Calculated Parameters
Atmospheric Density: 0.06485 lbs/ft³ Speed of Sound: 1144.2 ft/s

Initial Angle: 30.0 deg Terminal Angle: 63.0 deg
Terminal Range: 2136.7 yds Terminal Velocity: 277.5 ft/s
Terminal Time: 19.600 s Terminal Energy: 21.4 ft•lbs
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Post by Charles L. Cotton »

People who know me or that have taken classes from me know I preach target identification and backstop considerations. For those who don't know me, please don't take the following comments as justification to randomly shoot anywhere you wish.

I have to respectfully disagree with the DA's evaluation of this case. I do so reluctantly, because as an attorney I know the risk in trying to second guess a jury, prosecutor, LEO, or judge without seeing all of the evidence to which they were privy. However, if this latest report is accurate regarding the underlying facts, I do not believe the officers' conduct meets the legal standard for manslaughter. I know for certain that the definition provided in the article is inaccurate and if it came from the DA's lips, that’s worrisome.

The culpable mental state set out in the article is stated as follows, “Culpable negligence is defined as the omission to do something a reasonably careful person would do.�

No it is not. The mental state required for a manslaughter charge/conviction is much higher than the definition quoted. The mental state in the article is an improperly worded civil court definition of “negligence.� Here is the true mental state required for manslaughter:
TPC §6.03(c) wrote:(c) A person acts recklessly, or is reckless, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he is aware of but consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur. The risk must be of such a nature and degree that its disregard constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that an ordinary person would exercise under all the circumstances as viewed from the actor's standpoint.
To be convicted of manslaughter, the defendant's conduct must be "reckless:"
TPC§ 19.04 wrote:MANSLAUGHTER. (a) A person commits an offense if he recklessly causes the death of an individual.
(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the second
degree.
The conduct must be a gross deviation from what an ordinary person would do, if they were faced with the exact circumstances, and viewing those circumstances from the officers’ standpoint. Just because some “ordinary� people would not have taken the shot doesn’t mean their conduct was a “gross deviation� from the standard. Throw in the officers’ concern for people being bitten by a snake, and I do not see a “gross deviation� from the ordinary person standard. [No, I would not have taken the shot, but that’s irrelevant.] To put it in layman's terms, it isn't sufficient to say "I wouldn't have done that." You must be able to say "no one in their right mind would have done that." (I'm not talking about insanity issues; I'm just speaking colloquially .)

The DA goes on to say, “Based on my review of the OSBI report and my viewing of the scene, I concluded these officers failed to do something that a reasonably careful person would do by firing a weapon at a non-poisonous snake that was stuck in a birdhouse without knowing what lay behind their location.�

Again, he’s not applying the appropriate mental culpability standard of “gross deviation.� It also appears he is ignoring the evidence of safety steps the officers took before firing:

1. Tried to remove the snake with a stick, rather than shooting;
2. Asked a knowledgeable person about the shot-fall area;
3. Planned to use a large tree as the backstop;
4. Knelt down to shoot (I take this to mean he was changing the shot angle.)

To me, these facts do not rise to the level of men who were guilty of a gross deviation from the “ordinary man� standard. It was a tragic result, but bad results have nothing to do with a determination of mental culpability.

If shooting a snake with a shot-fall region described as a “heavily wooded area� with nothing in it is a “gross deviation from what an ordinary person would do,� then perhaps we’d better quit hunting. This is precisely the environment in which we often seek game. And we do so knowing there is a substantial likelihood other hunters are within rifle range. (Before anyone says hunters assume this risk, understand that may be relevant in a civil trial, but it has nothing to do with criminal culpability or criminal charges.)

In my view, this was a tragic and easily preventable event, but not the result of criminal conduct. I believe this prosecution is politically motivated. The DA just couldn’t look at the media and do nothing when the victim was a 5 year old little boy. Here lies the second tragedy, two devastated officers now face charges for conduct that does not rise to the level of criminal culpability, simply because a man could not do his duty and simply say “no.�

Chas.
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Post by Hamourkiller »

Well thank God the Prosecutor sees it differently. I am willing to bet the jury will also.

I only have sorrow for the family young Austin.

For the "Officers" involved just anger and disgust.
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Post by KBCraig »

Here's the Oklahoma definition:

§21716. Manslaughter in the second degree.

Every killing of one human being by the act, procurement or culpable negligence of another, which, under the provisions of this chapter, is not murder, nor manslaughter in the first degree, nor excusable nor justifiable homicide, is manslaughter in the second degree.
R.L.1910, § 2325.
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Post by KRM45 »

KBCraig wrote:Here's the Oklahoma definition:

§21716. Manslaughter in the second degree.

Every killing of one human being by the act, procurement or culpable negligence of another, which, under the provisions of this chapter, is not murder, nor manslaughter in the first degree, nor excusable nor justifiable homicide, is manslaughter in the second degree.
R.L.1910, § 2325.
Thnak you for posting the appropriate statute. I respect Charles anf his opinion, but trying to apply the Texas statutes to actions in another state doesn't usually work...
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Post by Charles L. Cotton »

KBCraig wrote:Here's the Oklahoma definition:

§21716. Manslaughter in the second degree.

Every killing of one human being by the act, procurement or culpable negligence of another, which, under the provisions of this chapter, is not murder, nor manslaughter in the first degree, nor excusable nor justifiable homicide, is manslaughter in the second degree.
R.L.1910, § 2325.
Yep, that makes a difference. I missed the fact that it is in Oklahoma.

Chas.
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Post by flintknapper »

Charles L. Cotton wrote: It also appears he is ignoring the evidence of safety steps the officers took before firing:

1. Tried to remove the snake with a stick, rather than shooting;
2. Asked a knowledgeable person about the shot-fall area;
3. Planned to use a large tree as the backstop;
4. Knelt down to shoot (I take this to mean he was changing the shot angle.)


Chas.

You may well be correct, still....I can feature the defense replying:
1. Tried to remove the snake with a stick, rather than shooting;
This is like trying to put toothpaste back in the tube (ineffective method).

2. Asked a knowledgeable person about the shot-fall area;
Apparently not!...(knowledgeable that is).

3. Planned to use a large tree as the backstop;
Something less than certain to work.

4. Knelt down to shoot (I take this to mean he was changing the shot angle.)
Probably increased the upward angle of the shot...and the likelihood the bullet would travel a great distance.


Like you, I want to support LEO every way I can. I just can't do it here.

If everyone involved was that terrified of a harmless rat snake...for Pete's sake, call someone else to handle it.


Such a tragic and avoidable circumstance for all involved.

My prayers for everyone.
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Post by Charles L. Cotton »

Hamourkiller wrote:Well thank God the Prosecutor sees it differently. I am willing to bet the jury will also.

I only have sorrow for the family young Austin.

For the "Officers" involved just anger and disgust.
I too feel terrible for the boy's family, and I don't think there is anything in my post to indicate otherwise. As for the officers, I feel equally bad. Would you feel as strongly if a hunter's bullet missed and killed someone?

Chas.
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Post by Liberty »

I wonder why they are carrying 357 sigs. Doesn't seem very suitable for general purpose police work. Any other common police carry would have been less likely for this to have happened.
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Post by RKirby »

Well, it's now been over a month since I started this thread. We are just now finding out the names of the officers involved.

Ladies and gentlemen, If this had been a "civilian" such as you or I who had squeezed the trigger that fateful day the flow of information from the Noble PD and the District Attorney would much different.

You can bet your last dollar that the Noble PD public information officer would have made sure that your name and photo would have been made available to every media outlet on their press conference call list. Your quick arrest would be trumpeted as another example of great police work in action while they all patted each other on the backs.

We and our families and relatives would have been drug through the dirt while being hounded by the media for the past month instead of having an official shroud of secrecy surrounding us.

Instead, since police officers were involved we have had a virtual news blackout for over a month. If this doesn't reek of an official cover up I don't know what does.

I hope the residents of Noble and the county in which it resides demand the resignations of all who are involved in this despicable incident. The Chief of Police and the District Attorney should be at the top of the list. In my eyes they are as guilty as the officer who squeezed the trigger that day.

This kind of official behavior is unacceptable in an open society.

I feel the pain and sorrow of all that were involved in this tragedy.

I can't even begin to imagine the pain of loosing a child or grand-child. Hopefully I will never find out personally.

I also can't imagine the emotions that the officers involved are having to deal with. Again, I hope I never have to deal with this myself.

There were no winners in this tragedy...only losers. :cry:
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