Page 5 of 13
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:22 pm
by troglodyte
dlh wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:07 pm
I only heard three shots. The first two from the gunman who killed the two innocents next to him then the third and final shot from the good guy Mr. Wilson killing the bad guy.
I practice regularly at the distance between Mr. Wilson and the bad guy with a steel target and usually manage about 8 hits out of ten shots. Mr. Wilson's marksmanship was amazing under the circumstances.
I also wonder about Mr. Wilson's one-shot in that incident. I would have been inclined to fire multiple rapid shots at the suspect. Perhaps there may have been people in the way or he trusted his marksmanship enough to fire just once.
There was a forth shot (third by the BG) at the same moment that Mr. Wilson took his shot. If you watch the video carefully you can see the shotgun muzzle flash. It apparently went into the ceiling or over the heads of the congregation.
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:28 pm
by surprise_i'm_armed
The problem in the above story is ambiguity. The BG was a "gunman", and Jack Lewis could be considered a "gunman".
The lack of clarity in ID'ing each shooter is the crux of the troubling reporting. The "gunman" who owned the range and trained others on his security team was the GOOD GUY.
SIA
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:35 pm
by ELB
surprise_i'm_armed wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:28 pm
The lack of clarity in ID'ing each shooter is the crux of the troubling reporting.
No, don’t think so. Something of this magnitude your check your facts. Best you can say about this is it’s contemptible carelessness in rushing to print, no doubt exacerbated by their stereotype of gun owners in general.
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:41 pm
by mojo84
Have the motives of the murderer been revealed yet?
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:41 pm
by RoyGBiv
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:44 pm
by surprise_i'm_armed
Well, I guess if the term "gunman" is automatically assumed to be a criminal, that is the "anti" viewpoint.
It then follows for those of us that are 2A fans, that we should immediately infer that journalists using "gunman" are using it to describe a criminal.
Whereas, I might read further into a story to see if the "gunman" is in fact a criminal, or a law-abiding defender of him/herself or others.
SIA
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:08 pm
by mr surveyor
Are others as disappointed as I am (although not surprised) by the fact that the media, particularly Fox News (I can't speak for the others) has constantly reported in this story that Texas just passed a law this year that allows citizens to carry firearms into a place of worship? Yep, it's true according to the media that we've all (at least us more seasoned ones) been told to trust as fact. By golly, that Governor Abbot guy is responsible for passing this new law to allow just regular old citizens to take guns to church.
Even in their total ignorance though, they at least seem to be on the side of lawful armed citizens.
My hope is that this story won't fade away, seeming to leave the two brave defenders to appear to have died in vain. I'd like to see the totality of this incident pushed to the forefront and see the "media" have to get serious in reporting true facts .... all of them.
jd
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:52 pm
by jason812
mr surveyor wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:08 pm
Are others as disappointed as I am (although not surprised) by the fact that the media, particularly Fox News (I can't speak for the others) has constantly reported in this story that Texas just passed a law this year that allows citizens to carry firearms into a place of worship? Yep, it's true according to the media that we've all (at least us more seasoned ones) been told to trust as fact. By golly, that Governor Abbot guy is responsible for passing this new law to allow just regular old citizens to take guns to church.
Even in their total ignorance though, they at least seem to be on the side of lawful armed citizens.
My hope is that this story won't fade away, seeming to leave the two brave defenders to appear to have died in vain. I'd like to see the totality of this incident pushed to the forefront and see the "media" have to get serious in reporting true facts .... all of them.
jd
All day on the am radio too. The media reported it this way 2 years ago and that's the narrative that stuck.
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:55 pm
by jason812
I thought if you had good guys with guns when the police showed up, they wouldn't know who were the good guys and who were the bad guys. The cops would just shoot the good guys.
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:57 pm
by Mel
Don't remember which channel I heard it, probably CBS, stated that earlier this year the law was clarified. Not a new law passed.
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:03 pm
by Flightmare
As others have pointed out, it has been legal to carry in places of worship for quite some time now (assuming people were not provided notice under 30.06 and 30.07). That being said, there WAS a new law passed in 2017 that I believe DOES deserve credit in this event. HB421 by Matt Rinaldi exempted volunteer church security personnel from Section 1702.333, Occupations Code. This allowed LTCs to carry self-defense handguns while volunteering. The heroes at this church (the one who stopped the shooter and the ones who fell while attempting to) were acting as a volunteer security team for the church. I believe the book of John, chapter 15 verse 13 says it best;
"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:20 pm
by retrieverman
I’ve watched the unedited video about 50 times to try to learn from this situation, and I’ve concluded I need to re-evaluate what and how I carry at church.
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:03 pm
by The Annoyed Man
retrieverman wrote: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:20 pm
I’ve watched the unedited video about 50 times to try to learn from this situation, and I’ve concluded I need to re-evaluate what and how I carry at church.
"What" is not so much the issue for me a "how". My church is posted 30.07, so OC is out of the question. Were it not, I’d likely carry in my shoulder holster. Otherwise, I usually carry either OWB or AIWB. For reasons of comfort, I prefer OWB over AIWB, but my OWB holster isn’t worn so far around behind my hip as the poor gentleman wore his who the church killer shot first. If I were OC'ing, my draw stroke would still be reasonably quick. However, I am pretty much always fastest drawing from AIWB. But even though I can carry that way for hours and I’m faster with it that way, it’s not nearly as comfortable, so I tend not to carry that way unless it’s my G43.
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:37 pm
by powerboatr
not to be funny, but right before the shooting i was looking at the parishioners, most seemed to be doing what we all do, i think just sit listening but our body language has us somewhere else. thank you to the folks saving this video. My wife and I have been watching it dozens of times and thinking aloud how and why we may react.
and the good guy stopping the bad guy is one heck of a controlled and precise shooter.
Re: Church shooting in Tarrant County - White Settlement
Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:43 am
by philip964
Parishioner hero with a license to carry - Security Guard
Hero defender of the congregation - Gunman
These are not accidents or a rush to get a story out, this is ingrained negative bias.
The murderers sister said it was her other brother’s Birthday. He committed suicide in 2008.
Both brothers were on and off homeless. He came to the church often for help. He apparently could quote the Bible. She was unaware of any hard feelings he had for the church as they had always treated him well.
One shot from Mr. Wilson. Two shotgun blasts, but one was supposedly at the ceiling. Three dead. Did I miss something?