Man indicted for shooting fleeing intruder

[seamusTX]

Certainly in this type of case you want an attorney with experience in criminal defense, not "my cousin Vinny." Usually they are former prosecutors. That may well be the key qualification.

It's a quandary. Most criminal defendants are as guilty as homemade sin, and that is what criminal defense attorneys are used to dealing with. Justified shoots that are prosecuted are rare.

- Jim

[WildBill]

A practicing criminal defense atty will usually have a relationship with the DA's office. Maybe they can cut you a deal. Clean record? In our case, a clean shoot? They are familiar with the courts, and different judges etc. Definite advantage vs an atty who takes the occassional criminal case.(IMHO).

Many times "cutting a deal" involves jail time. When you "cut a deal" you also have to tell the judge that you committed the crime and that you are very sorry. Even if you are not guilty.

Are you familiar with the Mark Fuhrman case? He was not guilty, but he plead to a felony perjury charge to avoid the monetary and emotional cost of a trial. He didn't go to jail, but lost his rights to possess firearms, and could never get another job as an LEO.

[gemini]

A practicing criminal defense atty will usually have a relationship with the DA's office. Maybe they can cut you a deal. Clean record? In our case, a clean shoot? They are familiar with the courts, and different judges etc. Definite advantage vs an atty who takes the occassional criminal case.(IMHO).

Many times "cutting a deal" involves jail time. When you "cut a deal" you also have to tell the judge that you committed the crime and that you are very sorry. Even if you are not guilty.

Are you familiar with the Mark Fuhrman case? He was not guilty, but he plead to a felony perjury charge to avoid the monetary and emotional cost of a trial. He didn't go to jail, but lost his rights to possess firearms, and could never get another job as an LEO.

I guess it depends on exactly where you quote from:
"Have any Priors? A practicing criminal defense atty will usually have a relationship with the DA's office. Maybe they can cut you a deal. "

[seamusTX]

Nonviolent crimes that could be prosecuted as a felony can be pled down to a misdemeanor. This is often the case with drug possession.

However, homicide will never be pled down to a misdemeanor when the prosecutors dig in their heels. There also is no real alternative to felony aggravated assault or deadly conduct when a person shoots or shoots at another person.

- Jim

[WildBill]

I guess it depends on exactly where you quote from:
"Have any Priors? A practicing criminal defense atty will usually have a relationship with the DA's office. Maybe they can cut you a deal. "

I am not sure what you mean, but if you are asking whether Mark Fuhrman had any priors the answer is "No". He was a LAPD Detective with no criminal record. He served on the force for 20 years, earning more than 55 commendations.


Back on topic. Ray Lemes' attorney filed a motion to ask the judge to hold the juror in contempt.

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[TexDotCom]

you cant excuse his actions because he was drunk

If someone drives drunk they don't get a free pass because they were drunk.

Please don't let me give anyone the impression that I'm saying the deceased should excused because he was drunk. I'm mortified that y'all think I meant that. I'm just saying that the shooter pulled seems to have pulled the trigger without a full understanding of the situation...and apparently when he was outside of the house chasing an unarmed person who did not steal anything and was not a threat.

[seamusTX]

Obviously the intruder should not have been drunk, should not have wandered into someone else's house, and there are are many more shoulds like whoever he as with should have kept him out of harm's way.

But the fact that he was drunk is not relevant to the defendant's lack of justification. It is unlikely the defendant even knew the man's mental state.

- Jim

[zero4o3]

you cant excuse his actions because he was drunk

If someone drives drunk they don't get a free pass because they were drunk.

Please don't let me give anyone the impression that I'm saying the deceased should excused because he was drunk. I'm mortified that y'all think I meant that. I'm just saying that the shooter pulled seems to have pulled the trigger without a full understanding of the situation...and apparently when he was outside of the house chasing an unarmed person who did not steal anything and was not a threat.

it seems to me that with every artical I read the story changes slightly, I can definitly see your point of view.

[WildBill]

you cant excuse his actions because he was drunk

If someone drives drunk they don't get a free pass because they were drunk.

Please don't let me give anyone the impression that I'm saying the deceased should excused because he was drunk. I'm mortified that y'all think I meant that. I'm just saying that the shooter pulled seems to have pulled the trigger without a full understanding of the situation...and apparently when he was outside of the house chasing an unarmed person who did not steal anything and was not a threat.

it seems to me that with every artical I read the story changes slightly, I can definitly see your point of view.

It seems that the press is siding with the prosecution - Mr. Lemes used "hollowpoints". It may be that this provides for more TV drama, but there was not much in the articles about case for the defense.

[zero4o3]

you cant excuse his actions because he was drunk

If someone drives drunk they don't get a free pass because they were drunk.

Please don't let me give anyone the impression that I'm saying the deceased should excused because he was drunk. I'm mortified that y'all think I meant that. I'm just saying that the shooter pulled seems to have pulled the trigger without a full understanding of the situation...and apparently when he was outside of the house chasing an unarmed person who did not steal anything and was not a threat.

it seems to me that with every artical I read the story changes slightly, I can definitly see your point of view.

It seems that the press is siding with the prosecution - Mr. Lemes used "hollowpoints". There was not much in the articles about the testimony of the defense witnesses.

hollow points in his laser sighted handgun capable of shooting hundreds of bullets a minute

[WildBill]

hollow points in his laser sited handgun capable of shooting hundreds of bullets a minute

Exactly.

[seamusTX]

Once they decided to prosecute, the lawyers are going to make their best case. If that means playing on the jury's prejudices, that's the way the game is played.

Presumably the defense attorneys countered those facts by pointing out that the police use the same type of ammunition and weapon.

- Jim

[WildBill]

Once they decided to prosecute, the lawyers are going to make their best case. If that means playing on the jury's prejudices, that's the way the game is played.

Presumably the defense attorneys countered those facts by pointing out that the police use the same type of ammunition and weapon. - Jim

This is what has been in the news stories. How it was presented in court, I dunno. They may have never even mentioned hollow points or laser sights.

[seamusTX]

In a trial the prosecutors present every little detail of evidence. I don't know why. You would think the details wouldn't matter, since the defendant stipulated that he shot the deceased.

The average person who does not shoot and has not thought about these issues has a built-in prejudice about shooting to wound, powerful ammunition, "Dum-Dums," the evil sound of Glock, etc. We can deplore this ignorace, but it is a fact.

- Jim

[WildBill]

In a trial the prosecutors present every little detail of evidence. I don't know why. You would think the details wouldn't matter, since the defendant stipulated that he shot the deceased.

The average person who does not shoot and has not thought about these issues has a built-in prejudice about shooting to wound, powerful ammunition, "Dum-Dums," the evil sound of Glock, etc. We can deplore this ignorace, but it is a fact. - Jim

Some trials are won or lost based on fact. Probably more based on the perception of facts.