TexasCHLforum.com

iratollah wrote:Are there any different or specific laws relating to livestock rustlers?

Cutting livestock fences is criminal mischief.

And rustling livestock is theft. All of the theft at night and criminal mischief at night laws apply. In many cases, you can add criminal trespass for crossing a fence line designed to keep livestock in or people out.

But there are no special laws allowing you to shoot a rustler, if that was what you really wanted to know.

srothstein wrote:But there are no special laws allowing you to shoot a rustler, if that was what you really wanted to know.

I'm not going to shoot someone because they got my goat, even if I have a hundred acres and a shovel. Most of us have had someone 'get our goat' and we have the discipline to deal with it in other ways. Someone/something is messing with my wife's kids and we'd like to protect the herd.

My instructor put it like this.

If you have a lawn mower and it's sitting in your driveway and someone walk's up and takes it and you shoot them your going to jail and in trouble because it was theft and not burglary.

Same lawn mower and it's in your garage and the same person walks into the garage and takes the lawn mower it's now burglary and you can shoot him legally.

Same for your car. If they broke into your car and are taking something out of it and you see them with something in their hands like a radio etc. then it's legal to shoot them. If you catch them on the outside with a crowbar then you need to wait till they get inside and grab something then shoot them. Just kidding. He made a point to stress that although you may be legal it's not worth it. Also, he said that night time put's a whole other twist on it legally in your favor.

My instructor was an officer in a large metropolitan city.

would you confront the criminal if you were NOT armed? If not, then perhaps you shouldn't be confronting them at all.

A-R, that is good advice in my mind.

iratollah wrote:

srothstein wrote:But there are no special laws allowing you to shoot a rustler, if that was what you really wanted to know.

I'm not going to shoot someone because they got my goat, even if I have a hundred acres and a shovel. Most of us have had someone 'get our goat' and we have the discipline to deal with it in other ways. Someone/something is messing with my wife's kids and we'd like to protect the herd.

If it turns out to be another animal then you can do whatever is necessary to protect the herd. If it turns out to be a human, then you have other rules come into play. The law would treat it the same as any other theft when it comes to the use of force.

My instructor, (several years ago) quoted that you are legally allowed to use your weapon and engage a subject to protect yours, your families, an innocent 3rd parties life. To protect your property. Or as a result of a "blood act". I will defend my everything that is mine with my 2nd amendment and leave "observe and report" to the security guard at the mall.

...it's our responsibility to know and follow the specific points of the law before protecting our property with deadly force...to take an active part in protecting you and yours is admirable...to do it wrong is criminal...your instructor should not have made such sweeping blanket statements, and you should not rely on them...what, please, is your understanding of a "blood act"? Haven't heard that one...

The instructor didn't make it as simple as I put it. I, unlike many I see on here, do not have all day to write an in depth narrative. A blood act, as described by Texas penal code is simply "rape". The reason I leave my replies short is because people shouldn't rely on our responses, people simply shine a little light on the subject. However, it should still be the original persons obligation to pick up a copy of CHL laws and read into it. Responses on this website, for the most part, should do little more then point people in the right direction for finding regulations for themselves.

I agree with drj and there's also lots of gray area. A forum post never contains every possible detail.

OP was an instructor in another state and got the big picture answer long ago. The rest is just killing time.

Finding the regulations is easy enough but understanding them takes a law degree sometimes. I have never understood why laws are written so that the people they apply to can't understand them. We ask questions here in the attempt to learn . Although I do agree that some of the questions asked are easily answered by some searching. I wish people would quit spreading urban legend and hearsay and start researching things. The old bit about traveling 3 counties is a good start.

Drjfiremedic wrote:The instructor didn't make it as simple as I put it. I, unlike many I see on here, do not have all day to write an in depth narrative. A blood act, as described by Texas penal code is simply "rape". The reason I leave my replies short is because people shouldn't rely on our responses, people simply shine a little light on the subject. However, it should still be the original persons obligation to pick up a copy of CHL laws and read into it. Responses on this website, for the most part, should do little more then point people in the right direction for finding regulations for themselves.

...first time for me to see the term "blood act"...I'd like to read that description in the penal code...can you cite it? I completely agree with you that this forum's postings should simply help us know where to READ IT FOR OURSELVES...because anyone can remember something wrong or misquote it...but that won't help us in court...we gotta make our decisions based on the written law...

I will post a "copy / paste" of the blood act when I get home from this trip. I wouldn't want to cite it for risk of mod informing someone. I will get on here as quick as possible.

Drjfiremedic wrote:I will post a "copy / paste" of the blood act when I get home from this trip. I wouldn't want to cite it for risk of mod informing someone. I will get on here as quick as possible.

Me too.