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FishInTx wrote:[quote="The Annoyed Man"

Am I misunderstanding you?

Yes.

The police(with military gear) are hyped up already shooting at you. If you shoot back they will more than likely get more hyped up. There may be some scenarios where you need to shoot back to get cops to stop shooting at you, but I believe in most cases it would be best to not shoot back. So my answer is don't shoot back at LEO's.IMO YMMV[/quote]


Question, about your term (with military gear)

Are you saying a semi automatic ar-15 is a military rifle? Just a reminder that is what the liberals are saying as well. That is why they want to take them away as they don't not want weapons of war on our streets. The lay cop carries a semi auto ar-15. Last I checked that is not a military rifle, or is the NRA wrong about that?

Just a general thought, but It is rather discouraging that there is even a thread about shooting back at LEO's. I am sure the liberals will love reading these types of threads.

My policy is I get to go home safe tonght.

texanjoker wrote:Just a general thought, but It is rather discouraging that there is even a thread about shooting back at LEO's. I am sure the liberals will love reading these types of threads.

Taken out of context, yes of course such a thread title is discouraging .
But an honest person, having read the entire thread, will realize it is a valid, honest discussion, on the legalities, rights of an honest, law abiding citizen, that is wrongly targeted by LEO's (we will assume mistakenly, or though confusion of poor police work).
If the LE agency, attacks an incent citizen with deadly force. I think it is a fair question to discuss, what are the incent citizens lawful, rightful, obligations and abilities.

I do not believe we are discussing the citizens that disagree with US tax code, refuse to pay and are then approached with a warrant.
We are talking about the person in a car driving down the road mistaken by LEO’s as a wanted criminal, they open fire out of fear, or what ever……
We are talking about that the person sound asleep in their home, hears the dog bark, a shot gun blast, and the door come crashing in……

Fair questions I think.

A solution I've been thinking through is a barricaded subject scenario -

So barring exigent circumstances, tac teams are hesitant to storm a barricaded subject...as you can see on most swat shows (Dallas Swat, Miama-Dade Swat, etc). I hate advocating retreat when a person is the victim of unlawful force, regardless of the perpetrator(s). Ideally - this would be a non-issue. Unfortunately, people make mistakes. We can debate all day about the what ifs - but I think if there is any possible way to safely barricade yourself and family, and made contact with involved parties, your odds of survival go up quickly, as well as decreasing the odds you will have to shoot a cop, who likely did not have an active role in picking your house to enter.

It's not perfect, but it seems like a greater potential for a happier ending then going down fighting and your family getting paid later.

gigag04 wrote:We can debate all day about the what ifs - but I think if there is any possible way to safely barricade yourself and family, and made contact with involved parties, your odds of survival go up quickly, as well as decreasing the odds you will have to shoot a cop, who likely did not have an active role in picking your house to enter.

It's not perfect, but it seems like a greater potential for a happier ending then going down fighting and your family getting paid later.

I like this thought a lot. If possible throw a mattress, or coffee table, etc. against an open door or window to signal some form of barricading. Could be a great stalling tactic to buy time. The buying of time was my desire when I made the OP. Thank you sir!

That sounds like a good tactic if you're not a woman driving a vehicle in LA. Or a West Pointer shopping at Costco in NV.

gringo pistolero wrote:That sounds like a good tactic if you're not a woman driving a vehicle in LA. Or a West Pointer shopping at Costco in NV.

I'm still wondering why those women were driving with no lights on during the dark? Why is the media failing to cover that part of the story? Anybody that has worked nightshift on patrol knows paper drivers drive pretty reckless. Be clear for those that love to quote from postings that in itself is not a reason to shoot somebody, but there could be more to the story that lead to the shooting. The investigation is ongoing and I'll wait to judge those those officers when the facts come out. They are under huge public scrutiny and the feds will be watching so the investigation will be thorough.

texanjoker wrote: I'm still wondering why those women were driving with no lights on during the dark?

Good question;
As a LEO.. how many times have conducted a stop for a vehicle at night, no lights on, but operating in a very well lite area.. ie, the operator did not realize they did not turn on the lights (sober, drunk, makes little difference in this what if...) I think many of us at least once have started driving off in a super well lit area, and realized the head lights were still off when we moved outside that well lit area. Many housing communities i've seen in populated areas like, say Austin are that way....So many street lights, you would not even see the light from your headlights at night.

Like you, I'll await the outcome of the investigation before making a final opinion on what happened. But the realist in me means I do not believe everything I read in a police internal investigation nor take them at face value.(Yes another Erik Scott / LV PD reference)

gigag04 wrote:A solution I've been thinking through is a barricaded subject scenario -

So barring exigent circumstances, tac teams are hesitant to storm a barricaded subject...as you can see on most swat shows (Dallas Swat, Miama-Dade Swat, etc). I hate advocating retreat when a person is the victim of unlawful force, regardless of the perpetrator(s). Ideally - this would be a non-issue. Unfortunately, people make mistakes. We can debate all day about the what ifs - but I think if there is any possible way to safely barricade yourself and family, and made contact with involved parties, your odds of survival go up quickly, as well as decreasing the odds you will have to shoot a cop, who likely did not have an active role in picking your house to enter.

It's not perfect, but it seems like a greater potential for a happier ending then going down fighting and your family getting paid later.

GigAg, I wonder if you could expand on this thought? As a LEO, what would say barricade to you? Something visible? Sounds? And in the din of all the officers shouting, how would it be possible to make oneself heard? Would it make sense to keep some sort of megaphone handy?

Would it make sense to call 911? I've read in this forum how the information gets garbled between 911 and the officers involved. Is it really possible to coordinate through 911 to call off the dogs before something bad happens?

I like this idea because I don't want to get shot, but neither do I want to shoot a cop.

A secure safe room is your best bet.

gigag04 wrote:A secure safe room is your best bet.

If you're taking home design tips from medieval castles, don't forget meurtrière to guard the entrance of the inner keep from the attackers.

tbrown wrote:

gigag04 wrote:A secure safe room is your best bet.

If you're taking home design tips from medieval castles, don't forget meurtrière to guard the entrance of the inner keep from the attackers.

With my septic system, I've got the mote covered.

tbrown wrote:

gigag04 wrote:A secure safe room is your best bet.

If you're taking home design tips from medieval castles, don't forget meurtrière to guard the entrance of the inner keep from the attackers.

I might have missed it - what was your suggestion?

gigag04 wrote:

tbrown wrote:

gigag04 wrote:A secure safe room is your best bet.

If you're taking home design tips from medieval castles, don't forget meurtrière to guard the entrance of the inner keep from the attackers.

I might have missed it - what was your suggestion?

"meurtrière" an opening in a defensive wall to allow observation and sending projectiles.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... %C3%A9.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://fr.topic-topos.com/image-bd/fran ... -plage.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps not practical in most Texas home designs...

E.Marquez wrote:

gigag04 wrote:

tbrown wrote:

gigag04 wrote:A secure safe room is your best bet.

If you're taking home design tips from medieval castles, don't forget meurtrière to guard the entrance of the inner keep from the attackers.

I might have missed it - what was your suggestion?

"meurtrière" an opening in a defensive wall to allow observation and sending projectiles.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... %C3%A9.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://fr.topic-topos.com/image-bd/fran ... -plage.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Perhaps not practical in most Texas home designs...

Understood - couldn't google at the time Thanks!