TexasCHLforum.com

apostate wrote:

SewTexas wrote:I think a voucher system gives taxpayers a screaming voice. If Mr and Mrs Smith don't like the the Government School in their neighborhood, then they should have the right to transfer their child to a better one, and take their $ with them, or to a private school, or to home.

In that scenario, Mr. and Mrs. Smith would be the tax recipients not the tax payers.

If they live in the county they pay taxes too. They can't take their money with them as it is forcefully removed from them the same way it is taken from you. Now you can keep choosing to spend your money on a failing system that serves just about no one. Or, alternatives can be found. A school that kids can apply to that specializes in autistic kids. A school that specializes in at risk children. A school that specializes in kids that are great at math and science, or music and art, or writing. A school that specializes in mechanical work. If the school does not perform, they lose their funding by a show of feet.

You can keep funding a terribly failing system that is IMO grinding our kids to mush or we can promote some entrepreneurial spirit and perhaps bring some hope back to our system. If I had a choice I would try to find a way out.

mamabearCali wrote:If they live in the county they pay taxes too.

If they own real property in the county they (may) pay property taxes to the ISD. However, if they're renters they don't.

apostate wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:If they live in the county they pay taxes too.

If they own real property in the county they (may) pay property taxes to the ISD. However, if they're renters they don't.

Where do you think the money the landlord pays comes from?

Pawpaw wrote:

apostate wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:If they live in the county they pay taxes too.

If they own real property in the county they (may) pay property taxes to the ISD. However, if they're renters they don't.

Where do you think the money the landlord pays comes from?

That's easy. It comes out of the landlord's pocket. How do I know that? Because the landlord must pay the property taxes whether or not their tenant pays the rent. They also pay property taxes if the unit is vacant.

Excluding for a moment NNN and other Net Leases which are extremely rare for residential property, the tenant doesn't directly pay the landlord's property taxes. If we're arguing indirect payment, then let's say the renter's employer pays the landlord's property taxes.

apostate wrote:

Pawpaw wrote:

apostate wrote:

mamabearCali wrote:If they live in the county they pay taxes too.

If they own real property in the county they (may) pay property taxes to the ISD. However, if they're renters they don't.

Where do you think the money the landlord pays comes from?

That's easy. It comes out of the landlord's pocket. How do I know that? Because the landlord must pay the property taxes whether or not their tenant pays the rent. They also pay property taxes if the unit is vacant.

Excluding for a moment NNN and other Net Leases which are extremely rare for residential property, the tenant doesn't directly pay the landlord's property taxes. If we're arguing indirect payment, then let's say the renter's employer pays the landlord's property taxes.

that's biggest bunch of .. if you are a landlord you figure your taxes into your rent. I've paid rent, I paid the same amount as everyone else on the block paid for their mortgage payment. if you're going to get into indirect then I don't pay my taxes my mortgage company does

ah geez

I'm disappointed but not surprised how many people are in favor of handouts when the money would go into their pockets. I'm not surprised because it's the main reason why Texas is $269 Billion in debt and the federal government is $17 Trillion in debt. I think we're past the point of safe return.

FML

FML wrote:I'm disappointed but not surprised how many people are in favor of handouts when the money would go into their pockets. I'm not surprised because it's the main reason why Texas is $269 Billion in debt and the federal government is $17 Trillion in debt. I think we're past the point of safe return.

FML

You know I really don't care if I ever get a dime back from all the school taxes I have paid. I would be glad for them to take my $$ in exchange for never touching or interfering with my education of my children.

What I would like to see is if we are going to be paying so much for education then I feel that as a taxpayer I want a better product for the children that are stuck and have no alternative but to depend on public schools. Right now what we have is obviously not working. Lets see about other things that might work, charter schools and vouchers look like a good choice option to me. If a school is failing it will fail. If it is thriving and has an excellent system it will flourish. If you have something better I am all ears. But as you have pointed out, we are out of $$ so I don't think the oft given answer of more $$ at a system that serves nearly no one is the answer.

FML wrote:I'm disappointed but not surprised how many people are in favor of handouts when the money would go into their pockets. I'm not surprised because it's the main reason why Texas is $269 Billion in debt and the federal government is $17 Trillion in debt. I think we're past the point of safe return.

FML

Please define a handout. Unless I have received more value (in services or money) than I have contributed (in services or money), then I haven't received a handout. I assure you I've done a whole lot more giving than I have taking.

jmra wrote:Please define a handout.

Unless we arbitrarily limit it to cash, I can't think of any meaningful definition that wouldn't include food stamps, school vouchers, and the aptly named Section 8 housing vouchers.

mamabearCali wrote:

apostate wrote:

SewTexas wrote:I think a voucher system gives taxpayers a screaming voice. If Mr and Mrs Smith don't like the the Government School in their neighborhood, then they should have the right to transfer their child to a better one, and take their $ with them, or to a private school, or to home.

In that scenario, Mr. and Mrs. Smith would be the tax recipients not the tax payers.

If they live in the county they pay taxes too.

Maybe. Maybe not. http://www.window.state.tx.us/propertyt ... 6-1740.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Either way, the people who get the vouchers would have all the choices, whether or not they paid. The people who paid for the vouchers get no voice unless they also fall into the first category. If such an unjust system was enacted in Texas, I would use any effective means at my disposal to avoid paying any school taxes, instead of paying reluctantly like I do now.

Paying taxes is not a zero-sum game.

WildBill wrote:Paying taxes is not a zero-sum game.

I don't think anybody suggested it should be. I definitely didn't.

It looks like the voucher disagreement is between people who want a voice in how their taxes are spent (through school board elections, etc.) and people who want to spend OPM without the taxpayers having a voice. Being forced to pay taxes and then denied a voice was unacceptable to the founders of this country. It is unacceptable to me too. I have no moral or ethical obligation to comply with a system like that, whether or not I go as far as tarring and feathering tax collectors or dumping things in harbors like the founders.

If Texas wasn't spending an unholy amount of money on athletics programs education would be much less expensive and IMHO much more productive.

jmra wrote:If Texas wasn't spending an unholy amount of money on athletics programs education would be much less expensive and IMHO much more productive.

I'm not going to touch that one with a ten foot pole.

Many would be very surprised the percentage of the athletics budgets come from the school district budgets. About 65-70% of ours comes from our booster club and fundraising by the teams. Obviously, I'm not talking about capital projects that are paid for by bonds. A large portion of the remaining funds comes from gate and concession receipts

If one doesn't like what is being done through bonds, you have a say in that.