TexasCHLforum.com

EEllis wrote:
http://www.newson6.com/story/7679311/ac ... e-hospital

Investigators say 24 year-old Jacob Hurst of Tulsa pulled a loaded semi automatic pistol out of his holster, it accidentally went off and hit the victim.

Another gun accidently goes off My years of root cause analysis taught me their are few true accidents. What we analyzed and investigated were incidents almost without fail. Someone almost always has their finger on the bang switch when a firearm "accidently" discharges. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's annoying to read a reporter's tripe and quotes from the actor. .

"it accidentally went off and hit the victim. "

As we all know those pesky firearms have minds of their own and that's why OC is so incredibly scaaaaaaaaaaaaary!

I just got back from the george r brown high caliber gun show today and their sign posted said. "all guns must be unloaded and checked beyond this point." It was right at the place were you get in line to go in. but they did not have a 30.06 sign. Their was also a sign that said "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone right next to the gun sign. I assume that sign is for people who want to challenge the legality of their stuff.

winters wrote:I just got back from the george r brown high caliber gun show today and their sign posted said. "all guns must be unloaded and checked beyond this point." It was right at the place were you get in line to go in. but they did not have a 30.06 sign. Their was also a sign that said "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone right next to the gun sign. I assume that sign is for people who want to challenge the legality of their stuff.

This is where things will get muddy for OC on public property run by private businesses. With CC, you can still just walk right past that sign - who cares if the vendor makes a house rule that is not legally binding (unless they start wanding). With OC, they could simply deny you service if you refused to unload your weapon. Is there way any way to challenge this?
Unfortunately, we are not a protected class like race, religion, age, etc.

locke_n_load wrote:

winters wrote:I just got back from the george r brown high caliber gun show today and their sign posted said. "all guns must be unloaded and checked beyond this point." It was right at the place were you get in line to go in. but they did not have a 30.06 sign. Their was also a sign that said "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone right next to the gun sign. I assume that sign is for people who want to challenge the legality of their stuff.

This is where things will get muddy for OC on public property run by private businesses. With CC, you can still just walk right past that sign - who cares if the vendor makes a house rule that is not legally binding (unless they start wanding). With OC, they could simply deny you service if you refused to unload your weapon. Is there way any way to challenge this?
Unfortunately, we are not a protected class like race, religion, age, etc.

The moment they tell you you cannot enter, then they have violated newly acted Tex. Gov't Code §411.209 established by SB273. The only way to prohibit someone from entering is by using one of the two criminal trespass statutes (§30.05 or §30.06). That doesn't work. Also, private use, management or control of public property is irrelevant. Tex. Penal Code §30.06(e) applies to all property that is owned by or leased by a governmental agency or entity.

I agree that open-carry of a loaded handgun at gun shows will cause a problem, but people carrying in that manner need to remember that SB273 passed before HB910 (open-carry) passed, thus §30.07 is not covered by §411.209.

Chas.

Tex. Gov't Code §411.209 wrote:Sec. 411.209. WRONGFUL EXCLUSION OF CONCEALED HANDGUN LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A state agency or a political subdivision of the state may not provide notice by a communication described by Section 30.06, or by any sign expressly referring to that law or to a concealed handgun license, that a license holder carrying a handgun under the authority of this subchapter is prohibited from entering or remaining on a premises or other place owned or leased by the governmental entity unless license holders are prohibited from carrying a handgun on the premises or other place by Section 46.03 or 46.035, Penal Code.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
I agree that open-carry of a loaded handgun at gun shows will cause a problem, but people carrying in that manner need to remember that SB273 passed before HB910 (open-carry) passed, thus §30.07 is not covered by §411.209.

Chas.

Oh, so govt property can be posted 30.07? For some reason I was thinking it would be the same as with 30.06. Or is it that it's illegal but just no penalty?

EEllis wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
I agree that open-carry of a loaded handgun at gun shows will cause a problem, but people carrying in that manner need to remember that SB273 passed before HB910 (open-carry) passed, thus §30.07 is not covered by §411.209.

Chas.

Oh, so govt property can be posted 30.07? For some reason I was thinking it would be the same as with 30.06. Or is it that it's illegal but just no penalty?

I believe that 30.07 is not enforceable on govt. property, but there is no penalty for posting.

Vol Texan wrote:

dhoobler wrote:

winters wrote:So who is going to do the work for the george r brown convention center postings during the gun show?

I have not been to a GRB gun show in years, but I hear that it is no longer posted. I stand to be corrected if it is posted.

It was not posted on my last visit.

I went to the GRB show this last Saturday, it was not posted.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:

winters wrote:I just got back from the george r brown high caliber gun show today and their sign posted said. "all guns must be unloaded and checked beyond this point." It was right at the place were you get in line to go in. but they did not have a 30.06 sign. Their was also a sign that said "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone right next to the gun sign. I assume that sign is for people who want to challenge the legality of their stuff.

This is where things will get muddy for OC on public property run by private businesses. With CC, you can still just walk right past that sign - who cares if the vendor makes a house rule that is not legally binding (unless they start wanding). With OC, they could simply deny you service if you refused to unload your weapon. Is there way any way to challenge this?
Unfortunately, we are not a protected class like race, religion, age, etc.

The moment they tell you you cannot enter, then they have violated newly acted Tex. Gov't Code §411.209 established by SB273. The only way to prohibit someone from entering is by using one of the two criminal trespass statutes (§30.05 or §30.06). That doesn't work. Also, private use, management or control of public property is irrelevant. Tex. Penal Code §30.06(e) applies to all property that is owned by or leased by a governmental agency or entity.

I agree that open-carry of a loaded handgun at gun shows will cause a problem, but people carrying in that manner need to remember that SB273 passed before HB910 (open-carry) passed, thus §30.07 is not covered by §411.209.

Chas.

Tex. Gov't Code §411.209 wrote:Sec. 411.209. WRONGFUL EXCLUSION OF CONCEALED HANDGUN LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A state agency or a political subdivision of the state may not provide notice by a communication described by Section 30.06, or by any sign expressly referring to that law or to a concealed handgun license, that a license holder carrying a handgun under the authority of this subchapter is prohibited from entering or remaining on a premises or other place owned or leased by the governmental entity unless license holders are prohibited from carrying a handgun on the premises or other place by Section 46.03 or 46.035, Penal Code.

Wow. That's a mind bender as I also thought that the same law applied to 30.07.

So if I'm understanding correctly though, in the event that one of them posts a 30.07 because there is no penalty to do so, and let's say that they didn't post the 30.06 to avoid that penalty....if someone happened to be OC'ing, then they could simply pull their shirt over the gun and then proceed in under 30.06....and if they attempted to deny entry then to the CC'er, that would again fall under §411.209?

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

locke_n_load wrote:

winters wrote:I just got back from the george r brown high caliber gun show today and their sign posted said. "all guns must be unloaded and checked beyond this point." It was right at the place were you get in line to go in. but they did not have a 30.06 sign. Their was also a sign that said "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone right next to the gun sign. I assume that sign is for people who want to challenge the legality of their stuff.

This is where things will get muddy for OC on public property run by private businesses. With CC, you can still just walk right past that sign - who cares if the vendor makes a house rule that is not legally binding (unless they start wanding). With OC, they could simply deny you service if you refused to unload your weapon. Is there way any way to challenge this?
Unfortunately, we are not a protected class like race, religion, age, etc.

The moment they tell you you cannot enter, then they have violated newly acted Tex. Gov't Code §411.209 established by SB273. The only way to prohibit someone from entering is by using one of the two criminal trespass statutes (§30.05 or §30.06). That doesn't work. Also, private use, management or control of public property is irrelevant. Tex. Penal Code §30.06(e) applies to all property that is owned by or leased by a governmental agency or entity.

I agree that open-carry of a loaded handgun at gun shows will cause a problem, but people carrying in that manner need to remember that SB273 passed before HB910 (open-carry) passed, thus §30.07 is not covered by §411.209.

Chas.

Tex. Gov't Code §411.209 wrote:Sec. 411.209. WRONGFUL EXCLUSION OF CONCEALED HANDGUN LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A state agency or a political subdivision of the state may not provide notice by a communication described by Section 30.06, or by any sign expressly referring to that law or to a concealed handgun license, that a license holder carrying a handgun under the authority of this subchapter is prohibited from entering or remaining on a premises or other place owned or leased by the governmental entity unless license holders are prohibited from carrying a handgun on the premises or other place by Section 46.03 or 46.035, Penal Code.

What if they don't mention anything about a handgun? I know 273 mentions comms in 30.06 - in reference to a concealed handgun, but what if they just refuse you service because they don't like the shirt you have on or the ballcap your wearing, even though the real reason is the loaded handgun?

Any more activity on this?

sugar land dave wrote:Any more activity on this?

I have not heard from the AG office. I am inclined to give them 30 days before I start pestering them. I filed the complaint on October 4, so I will wait until the first week of November before I follow up.

There is a gun show scheduled a the Pasadena Convention center this weekend (Oct. 24-25). I hope to attend. If the have any sort of sign posted excluding CHL, I intend to file a second complaint with the AG.

I went to the pasadena gun show today and they had the 30.06 sign up right at the entrance again. Along with the usual police checking guns that people bring in.

wished i had taken a pic of them for ya.

winters wrote:I went to the pasadena gun show today and they had the 30.06 sign up right at the entrance again. Along with the usual police checking guns that people bring in.

wished i had taken a pic of them for ya.

Too bad you didn't have your phone with you. I have to wonder if additional complaints weeks after the initial one would make any difference.

I filed a complaint against the City of Pasadena with the AG office over excluding CHL holders from carrying loaded guns at the Pasadena convention center during gun shows. I have not heard anything from the AG office about my complaint, but I suspect Pasadena has.

I attended a gun show today at the Pasadena convention center. There was no 30.06/30.07 sign. There was no sign generally prohibiting loaded guns as there has been in the past. The only sign present said that no one except concealed handgun licence holders and law enforcement officers may carry loaded handguns and those handguns shall remain holstered.

I count this as a win.