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I have been watching this thread with a small degree of interest, as I am the kind of guy that likes to evolve an opinion rather than have one spontaneously erupt (thought this is not always true).

I agree that what the guy did was legal.

I agree that the guy handled it in a less-than-ideal-manner.

I agree that the LEO was wrong. No further explanation required on that issue.

I agree that the guy demonstrated contempt or arrogance.

You know what? He should feel contempt.

"Don't tread on me".

ScottDLS wrote:
I think I substantially agree with you. Some of the guys over at PAFOA.org (I believe) organized an open carry demonstration and walked while open carrying in front of city hall, DA, and AG office (why isn't this in Harrisburg?), and the Liberty Bell. They reported police observation by Phila PD and Rangers (State Cops) I think, but no harassment...likely because they were being videoed the whole time by supporters.

Also because bullies are cowards and will only pick on the "lone gunman" but not a crowd. There's a video on youtube of a guy in a large group open carrying in San Francisco at Starbucks. The police politely had a few words with them. No biggie. Then, the next day, the SAME cop puts a gun in the guys face at the same Starbucks when he was sitting there ALONE. There was several cops there and even a sniper. The cops were yelling at him and ordered him on the ground. This was an obvious police harassment. I'm going to google this guy's address so I could send him a check for his legal defense. I suggest you do the same.

Several people on OCDO who live in "hostile" states carry recorders on them. They are not "trolling for trouble", but instead are covering their butts when they are hassled by hired thugs with guns.

flb_78 wrote:Several people on OCDO who live in "hostile" states carry recorders on them. They are not "trolling for trouble", but instead are covering their butts when they are hassled by hired thugs with guns.

I mentioned, earlier in the thread, that my phone has a voice record feature, which I have moved the icon for to the main page. I quite often have it on in a variety of situations, including a recent visit to a doctor's office when he told me, disdainful of my allergy to nickle and my knowledge level about such things, that HE had never heard of stainless steel with nickle in it.

Since learning of the Philly incident I have begun to use that recorder even more, and one of the neat things is it runs in the background so the average LEO would not know that it was recording just by looking at it, as a matter of fact just about anybody would have trouble discerning that.

jimlongley wrote:

flb_78 wrote:Several people on OCDO who live in "hostile" states carry recorders on them. They are not "trolling for trouble", but instead are covering their butts when they are hassled by hired thugs with guns.

I mentioned, earlier in the thread, that my phone has a voice record feature, which I have moved the icon for to the main page. I quite often have it on in a variety of situations, including a recent visit to a doctor's office when he told me, disdainful of my allergy to nickle and my knowledge level about such things, that HE had never heard of stainless steel with nickle in it.

Since learning of the Philly incident I have begun to use that recorder even more, and one of the neat things is it runs in the background so the average LEO would not know that it was recording just by looking at it, as a matter of fact just about anybody would have trouble discerning that.

I believe that that is a good idea. For the truly "paranoid", one may consider streaming that voice feed directly to a server. Certain "thug" officials have been known to (accidentally) destroy/erase smart phones and recorders after arresting you on presumably trumped up charges.

clarionite wrote:

Keith B wrote: Let's face it, the guy had issues before in Philadelphia, so he knew that they were sensitive to open carry and he was expecting a confrontation as already had the recorder running. Was he legally within his rights to open carry, yes. Should the cop have given him the hassle, no. But, as my Momma used to say, if you go looking for a fight, you can usually find one.

What I hope happens from this is that the Philadelphia Police change their policy on open carry, and it stands as an example of how to deal with it legally. However, it should also stand as an example how to potentially get yourself shot if you go looking for trouble.

So, if a few LEOs in TX decides they're against Concealed Carry and starts pulling people over when a CHL shows up when they run tags... And they make the CHL holder get out on the ground while they search the vehicle, and then impound their handgun while bogus charges of UCW are defended in court then we should just say I'm not going to carry because I might have a hassle?

All that sounds good and emotional...except CHL returns are attached to an individual, not a vehicle...TCIC/NCIC info for that person doesn't pop up unless it is listed under the license plate, which again, CHL info is not.

...while not correct in the mechanics of his hypothetical situation...clarionite makes a good point...do we adapt our legal behavior and forego proper excercise of our legal rights because one or several LEOs disagree with what the law allows and let them intimidate us and demean us, or do we demand loudly that THEY change their behavior immediately and stop their oppressive behavior...I believe that's an easy answer, given the spirit of Texans...

gigag04 wrote:

clarionite wrote:

Keith B wrote: Let's face it, the guy had issues before in Philadelphia, so he knew that they were sensitive to open carry and he was expecting a confrontation as already had the recorder running. Was he legally within his rights to open carry, yes. Should the cop have given him the hassle, no. But, as my Momma used to say, if you go looking for a fight, you can usually find one.

What I hope happens from this is that the Philadelphia Police change their policy on open carry, and it stands as an example of how to deal with it legally. However, it should also stand as an example how to potentially get yourself shot if you go looking for trouble.

So, if a few LEOs in TX decides they're against Concealed Carry and starts pulling people over when a CHL shows up when they run tags... And they make the CHL holder get out on the ground while they search the vehicle, and then impound their handgun while bogus charges of UCW are defended in court then we should just say I'm not going to carry because I might have a hassle?

All that sounds good and emotional...except CHL returns are attached to an individual, not a vehicle...TCIC/NCIC info for that person doesn't pop up unless it is listed under the license plate, which again, CHL info is not.

I never worked on TCIC software. Lousiana, Virgina, Arkansas, Mississippi... They all return the owner of the vehicle and information about that owner... Such as Wants and Warrants. So I didn't see it as out of the ordinary that a Texas LEO would know all about me by running my tags. But if that's not the case then change my scenario to, the officer runs my tags, then gets my TDL ( I didn't give him my CHL because I don't have it with me at the moment, I'm going to visit my children on campus and didn't want it stolen from my vehicle) and runs me through TCIC/NCIC. Then orders me out and on the ground... Should I give up my CHL because he doesn't like civilian carry of a weapon?

gigag04 wrote:

clarionite wrote:

Keith B wrote: Let's face it, the guy had issues before in Philadelphia, so he knew that they were sensitive to open carry and he was expecting a confrontation as already had the recorder running. Was he legally within his rights to open carry, yes. Should the cop have given him the hassle, no. But, as my Momma used to say, if you go looking for a fight, you can usually find one.

What I hope happens from this is that the Philadelphia Police change their policy on open carry, and it stands as an example of how to deal with it legally. However, it should also stand as an example how to potentially get yourself shot if you go looking for trouble.

So, if a few LEOs in TX decides they're against Concealed Carry and starts pulling people over when a CHL shows up when they run tags... And they make the CHL holder get out on the ground while they search the vehicle, and then impound their handgun while bogus charges of UCW are defended in court then we should just say I'm not going to carry because I might have a hassle?

All that sounds good and emotional...except CHL returns are attached to an individual, not a vehicle...TCIC/NCIC info for that person doesn't pop up unless it is listed under the license plate, which again, CHL info is not.

Oh, it's not ment to be emotional either... Just to represent a similar situation that we Texans could empathise with.

Two federal laws are badly needed

One is to allow citizens to record encounters with police

The other to make it easy to sue police for harassing concealed carry holders

...the need for both could be negated by ALL LEOS simply understanding and enforcing the law...and not their own opinions of it...or their Chief's personal agenda...
...................ANY public servant who feels threatened by knowing his law-abiding citizens around him are armed is no public servant at all...and SHOULD fear...that's the whole purpose behind the 2A ...

Purplehood wrote: I agree that the guy handled it in a less-than-ideal-manner.

I agree that the guy demonstrated contempt or arrogance.

You know what? He should feel contempt.

"Don't tread on me".

I've seen this comment several times that Fiorino 'could have handled it better'. Not to pick on your post (it just happens to be on the last page so I grabbed this one), but considering he was staring at an enraged, cursing, angry individual holding the business end of a Glock aimed at his X ring, I think he handled it quite well. As far as being 'disrespectful', I allwasy think that respect goes both ways. And there was NONE coming from the cop.

Looks like he was found not guilty of all charges. Civil suit incoming.

http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-144/1 ... carry.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/ea ... 239038.htm

A gun-rights advocate stopped by police for openly carrying a weapon will settle his lawsuit against the city of Philadelphia for $25,000.

Mark Fiorino’s lawyer says the suit wasn’t about money, but about retraining police on open-carry laws.

Good for him!

Hopefully this will push the Philly PD to develop some standard guidelines for their officers on how to deal with people open carrying (as in, leave them alone if they are not committing a crime. )