Airline Piliots - inside scoop - good news!

[Liberty]

I can't stand it, all those thumb's behind the slide's I can't help but see that first.

Heh heh ElGato .. Always the instructor.

[flintknapper]

I can't stand it, all those thumb's behind the slide's I can't help but see that first.

Yup, it would be a bloody mess from that standpoint alone.


I just got a mental picture of all those thumbs wrapped over the top of their strong hands. Every time I go and renew I always get a previously bloodied nail pouch. LT will vouch for this.

[KBCraig]

I can't stand it, all those thumb's behind the slide's I can't help but see that first.

I immediately noticed that, too. Like my wife says, "You take the fun out of everything!"

[lrb111]

I suppose a BG could be 18 wide depending upon where you measure from.. and his physical characteristics. For comparison though, I'm 6'-5" and 260 lbs., I measure 16 inches from armpit to armpit (chest/torso). If I turn sideways to you... we can reduce that to 12". Vertically, If you apply the 24" measurement you cited, you would have to include all area from just under my chin, to 2 inches below by naval.

You are smaller than the COM on a B-27.
The outside edges of the 4 point ring on a B-27 targetis 17 x 23. I got used to saying to those that might be leary of the qualifier that if they could hit and area a foot and a half by 2 feet. Then they could qualify.

Then I teach what I call the "enhanced Mogadishu". Straight from the DPS, it's 2 to the heart, one to the head, the rest of the magazine into the groin area.
"2,1 dump" which is staged along the line of "stop, control, nuetralize." imo..

You don't seem to think that the terrorist's would be able to move much on an airliner, I disagree, but would simply submit that they don't have to.

There's just not much overhead room in the aisle, less movement if they are dragging someone as shield up the aisle.

Have you ever missed a steel plate by hurrying your shot? I know I have. It wasn't moving (up, down, sideways, forward, backward), it certainly wasn't shooting back at me (causing me to move), there was not a single "no shoot" to worry about, and being flanked was the furthest thing from my mind. Still, I manage to miss my fair share.

People can respond differently to situations. Some get tunnel vision and are looking for a way out. Some get tunnel vision and are looking for solutions, or targets. Some see all blurs, and some just fade to black.

The gist of it is this: You would in all probability be outnumbered and outgunned if we allow for the carry of handguns on airlines. Also, you may be sure... that the next time an airliner is breached, it will be shot down post haste if it is anywhere near a populated area or a target of any significance.

I'll say it again...FWIW, your handgun is NOT the answer for every situation IMO.

There have been reporters and others probing airline security. Many have gotten guns on to planes, and have reported it. From this point on I really feel it's just a matter of time before we see an attempt with a gun on an airplane.

Allow me to say Thank You.. for your viewpoints and participation, I respect everyone's ideas about what might be a prudent response to potential threats aboard our airlines. We may have different feelings about what would be best to do, but it is always good to examine these matters and consider each others input, Thanks again for yours.


Flint.

You are quite welcome, and thank you.

Now about those gangs and dark movie theatres...........

[GlockenHammer]

I would also like to say thank you to everyone who chose a polite debate. We can disagree without being disagreeable.
I learned a lot in this debate as well.

This has been an interesting thread. Good points on both sides of the issue.

[Boma]

I haven't read all your posts, but I did over hear an airline pilot looking for a pistol for duty at carter's country.

[gigag04]

lrb111 -

I don't where you got that I feel that I have arrived at the correct answer, by what you had quoted and then responded to earlier.

I am hearing you as coming across no less matter-of-factly than anyone else. I could be mis-understanding what you are saying, but to me it seems antagonistic. Is this really that big of a deal to you?

There isn't a snowball's chance in you know where that they (whoever "they" is) will allow CHL's to carry on a plane - as angry as you can get or as right as you can want to be - it isn't going to happen.

All I'm saying, is that I can understand why.

AND - fwiw - if every "gun free" zone had security measures that airports require people to go through, it would help to support the anti's position and make it more consistent - however, usually they fall way short.

I for one, don't wake up in cold sweats in the middle of the night worrying about a terrorist having a gun on a plane.

-nick

[lrb111]

lrb111 -

I don't where you got that I feel that I have arrived at the correct answer, by what you had quoted and then responded to earlier.

I am hearing you as coming across no less matter-of-factly than anyone else. I could be mis-understanding what you are saying, but to me it seems antagonistic. Is this really that big of a deal to you?

Bluntly (short on time this morning) Yes, it is that big a deal. For a lot of reasons. I also feel that teachers, janitors, coaches, etc that want to get a chl and carry should be allowed.
Same for carry in the work place.

All for the same reason "Deterrent". It works, we know it works, and have proof it works.

I for one, don't wake up in cold sweats in the middle of the night worrying about a terrorist having a gun on a plane.

I don't either, but I do worry that the numbers of people willing to stand for their 2nd amendment rights have turned nanny state wishy washy, and that we will lose those rights.

[Liberty]

Then I teach what I call the "enhanced Mogadishu". Straight from the DPS, it's 2 to the heart, one to the head, the rest of the magazine into the groin area.

I never heard it called the Mogadashu, although I've seen it refered to as the Mozambique.

Why to the groin area? Is that a bigger area than the head and neck?

I prescribe to. 2-1-1 (Double tap head head) repeat as necessary Although I think Cooper reccomended 2-1 repeat as necessary/

[lrb111]

Then I teach what I call the "enhanced Mogadishu". Straight from the DPS, it's 2 to the heart, one to the head, the rest of the magazine into the groin area.

I never heard it called the Mogadashu, although I've seen it refered to as the Mozambique.

Why to the groin area? Is that a bigger area than the head and neck?

I prescribe to. 2-1-1 (Double tap head head) repeat as necessary Although I think Cooper reccomended 2-1 repeat as necessary/

It's just me that has been calling it that, Mogadishu has been on our radar for awhile.
The groin area has about 3 reasons for taking the remaining bulk of the bullets. Hip sockets and joints keep the body up and moving, femoral arteries are there to aid in bleed out, and psychological effect of targeting the groin area.
I do match the Stop, Control, Nuetralize sequence to the 2,1,dump shooting sequence. If 2 don't work, head, shot, if that doesn't work dump the remainder low. Pretty much straight from DPS RO Riggs..

[kauboy]

The idea about dumping the rest into the pelvis is very well founded. If your attacker has either survived or avoided your previous shots, the ones that hit his pelvis will drop him like a stone.
If even the smallest fracture occurs due to a single round striking the pelvic bone, the BG will soon fall. If it outright breaks the bone, they will fall with a great THUD right in their tracks. As for the arteries, they are rather large and begin branching near the pelvis, so they are great potential targets, and will cause a significant loss of plasma if struck. A 2-1-unload technique is almost a hands-down man-stopper. I know many may argue this, but nobody can withstand a broken pelvis while trying to support their body weight. You could be hepped up on the strongest drug known to man and not even feel the pain, but you won't be walking anymore.

[casselthief]

first off, a Fracture is the same thing as a Break.
and the smallest fracture does not equate to immediate falling of a target.
people have walked through my doors with hip Fx's, and you can keep moving with a Fx Pelvis.

but, overall your point is true, and the point being, unload enough bullets into a target with multple vital parts and the subject is toast.
and not the good kind, with butter and cinnamon.


but I did want to clear up a misconception about Fractures/Breaks/Cracks and what-have-ya.

[kauboy]

A hairline fracture doesn't always proceed through the entire bone. I don't call that a break.
At least this is what I have been told by my mother. She was an Ultrasound and X-ray technician years ago.

[casselthief]

a hairline Fx is still a Fx. a Fx, but it's very definition is a break.
a hairline Fx CAN go all the way through the bone.
an Incomplete Fx does not, and is thusly named.
no disrespect to yo' mama, but I am a Technologist (I went to school to do this), and have spent quite a few hours in surgical suites with OrthoPods (otherwise known as Bone Doctors.)

once again, we are off topic, and to the point, unloading a clip (especially if it's my Beretta with the 20-rdr) into the pelvis is a stellar idea.

two cheers for the Mogadishu/Mozambique/WhateverAfricanCountry.


hip
hip

[G.C.Montgomery]

I think lrb111 is refering to Sgt. Bobby Ripps, rather than Riggs. May be I'm wrong. I never met any troopers named Riggs in Austin. Bobby Ripps is truly a cool instructor and an excellent shooter whom I respect. But I'm not sold on a 'Mozambique' followed by dumping all remaining shots into the pelvis.

If the pevis is the only available target, then yes, shoot it early and often. However, pistols generally have very low ammunition reserves and handgun bullets just don't do the best job of breaking major bones like the pelvis. If don't know how many threats you are facing and you only have two or three magazines with which to work, it may not be advisable to dump half or one-third of all your ammunition reserve on one target. If you have no choice, then you roll with it. Still, I think there are better tactics.

Casselthief pointed out that he has routinely seen people walking with hip fractures. He also made a key statement when he said "...unload enough bullets into a target with multple vital parts and the subject is toast." How many bullets is enough? Again, if the pelvis is the only available target then by all means, hose away. But if I'm close enough to have considered a Mozambique in the first place, I can almost certainly continue shooting at that head and neck to get a faster reaction with less ammunition and less time on target than dumping the magazine into the pelvis. YMMV.