TexasCHLforum.com

mojo84 wrote:

tlt wrote: <snip>

As an Aside, if Walmart has concerns, all they need to do is a simple Attorney General Opinion request to satisfy their concerns. I am betting they will be told to call LEO if they have a concern and not to ask for licenses. This process puts everyone at a disadvantage. In the mean time, if you choose to OC in WM, then simply comply what's the big deal, don't make it worse by antagonizing employees.

Thank you Walmart for at least trying to do the right thing.

A private company is not an authorized requestor of an AG opinion. People that want to OC in their store needs to cooperate if asked to verify they have a valid license.

As stated..

I understand on the opinion I kept the answer short on how it would actually flow. The AG opinion is a very effective stall tactic the state can use from time to time as well. https://texasattorneygeneral.gov/opinio ... l-opinions

They request from TABC, DPS, Texas Licensing or whoever the parties are, on the legality of WM employees asking for LTC due to the apparent conflict in the law, the TX dept will request an opinion. An opinion is rendered, everyone lives with it. (more or less)

I hope we are not descending into the socialist madhouse of "you can't do anything which isn't required."

Maybe the local stop and rob isn't requesting OC'ers to show licenses. Most of those are one big room, limited product line operations. They get little attention unless there is a problem, like selling beer to minors. Then, there is a problem!

Walmart is not, and the threat of losing all of its licenses, or having them suspended through inadvertence, is a prospect they wish to actively avoid. They are under constant scrutiny, subjected to all manner of set ups, scams and stings by the legions of Walmart haters both goverment and private busybodies. Walmart may have more lawyers handling phony "slip and fall" incidents than the Attorney General has lawyers working for it.

Plus, Walmart has an entire staff of attorneys paid to watch such things. The smaller mom and pop operation doesn't.

I thought the Walmart asking to see your LTC has been rendered rather moot as they will do so only if you're found to be acting suspiciously while OCing.

Act normal while OCing and you won't be asked to show your LTC.

Abraham wrote:I thought the Walmart asking to see your LTC has been rendered rather moot as they will do so only if you're found to be acting suspiciously while OCing.

Act normal while OCing and you won't be asked to show your LTC.

No, this is just not the case.

I just OCed to my local walmart about an hour ago wearing slacks, a polo shirt, a Glock 17 in a level III Safariland 7360, a smile, and was there with my three children ages 4, 2.5, and 10 months... far and away outside of anything that could be construed or misconstrued as "acting suspiciously while OCing".

Yet Leroy the South Door Greeter, with whom I have established a several month long rapport on this exact topic, and for this exact reason, informed me that company policy changed, and that the greeters were supposed to ask anyone OCing to see their LTC. I said "no problem", showed him my card, he looked at it for about two seconds. He said Thanks, and let me know to be ready to be carded on my way in the door from now on. I said Thanks and I went on my way.

No issues, no cops involved, no "rights" infringed, no blading at 45*, no one's dog was shot and I did not ask him if I was being detained over and over.

I don't know the licensee aspect of the TABC laws, but to me, the blue sign put the burden on the weapon carrier, not the store:
"It is unlawful to carry a weapon on the premises unless the person is licensed to carry the weapon under the concealed handgun law."
"The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000."

Is this Walmart legal misinterpreting something?

GhostTX wrote:I don't know the licensee aspect of the TABC laws, but to me, the blue sign put the burden on the weapon carrier, not the store:
"It is unlawful to carry a weapon on the premises unless the person is licensed to carry the weapon under the concealed handgun law."
"The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony with a maximum penalty of 10 years imprisonment and a fine not to exceed $10,000."

Is this Walmart legal misinterpreting something?

They must be... since when is it the responsibility of the public to establish legality or enforce the law, regarding criminal behavior. If sings didn't hold weight, 06/07 signs wouldn't be valid notice. Asking employees to do so is an unnecessary risk, and i WOULD THINK A HUGE LIABILITY IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG.

AJSully421,

Thanks!

I stand corrected.

What I posted came from a forum member who stated his nephew is a WM mgr. and his nephew stated they'd only be asking for an LTC is the OCer was not acting normal.

Now, I wonder if WM mgmt. has decided in all their stores to make the greeters automatically check for LTC if one OC's.

Given your experience, I guess one might or might not be asked for LTC if OCing.

It wouldn't bother me. I'd proudly whip it out.

I feel sympathy for the poor greeter having to do this as I suspect not everyone will be polite and kind about it and a whole lot of greeters are elderly and/or handicapped.

AS stated polite is the key here, all it will take is an OC person causing a problem to cause the rest of us a nightmare and I honestly feel it will happen soon. Some things we have to accept and I am glad to do so ...

I would hope that I can have a balanced view of different angles. I am LTC. I have been in law enforcement. I also own my own business.
Do I want everyone on earth...including the government....dictating to me who I can and cannot have inside my business? The right to the control of my business premises is very important to me...and as an American it should be important to you, too. Would you deprive me of that right? If so then I would suspect you are a Socialist. As an ex-police officer I could understand the analogy of not being able to stop a driver just for the purpose of seeing if they have a drivers license. A person is innocent until proven guilty (which is a principle that is being disregarded these days)...an officer cannot stop unless there is something that arouses suspicion...behavior that leads to probable cause that a law is being violated or has been violated. Open carry, being legal, does not automatically indicate suspicious behavior. So a law enforcement officer detaining someone for the purpose of seeing a LTC is on shaky ground unless the law itself specifically grants the officer the right to do it. But if you are in someone else's business....in someone else's property...a person in control of that property OR someone under their supervision CAN ask. Civilians are not bound by the "probable cause" legality that LE officers are. If you are not going to respect the rights of others then you are disqualified to whine about your rights not being respected. Also, in my LTC training they spoke about being the "grown up" or the "adult" in all situations that may arise. If someone asks to see my LTC it may be because of their paranoia and/or liberal mindset...immature thinking. In that situation I must step up and be the adult...the grown up. I should not get offended....I should not belly-ache and whine...but rather smile and say something like "After all the expense and work it took to get this thing I will be glad to show it to you!"

What I've found amusing is threads about CHL/LTC badges were always met with derision for even suggesting such a thing advertising you have a license to carry - and OC does just that. So may as well get a lanyard with plastic slip case (ala trade show ID's) for your CHL/LTC along with your OC so it's out in the open and visible to all.

As a matter of fact, I've found the entire hullabaloo over OC a big whooptiedo about nothing amusing to the point of silliness.

Abraham wrote:AJSully421,

Thanks!

I stand corrected.

What I posted came from a forum member who stated his nephew is a WM mgr. and his nephew stated they'd only be asking for an LTC is the OCer was not acting normal.

Now, I wonder if WM mgmt. has decided in all their stores to make the greeters automatically check for LTC if one OC's.

Given your experience, I guess one might or might not be asked for LTC if OCing.

It wouldn't bother me. I'd proudly whip it out.

I feel sympathy for the poor greeter having to do this as I suspect not everyone will be polite and kind about it and a whole lot of greeters are elderly and/or handicapped.

This policy is apparently pretty new as I carried to several Walmarts on Tuesday and no greeter said anything. It may be that each manager interpreted the policy announcement a little differently, and maybe their own political slant got tossed in the mix (no way that ever happens, right?)

Like you said, I look at a LTC as pretty much a "certified good guy" card and I am happy to show it to a greeter if requested.

And you are right, there is no reason to accost the greeter, I'd bet they hate asking for the license... especially someone who is unfamiliar with firearms and might be afraid to "confront" someone who is open carrying a handgun. I hope everyone has a good experience like I did.

Lena wrote:which stores have the AR 15's ?

The WalMart in Mansfield used to carry them.

What would WalMart do if someone came in with open carry and no LTC? Call the police? Eventually it will happen.

Right2Carry wrote:

Lena wrote:which stores have the AR 15's ?

The WalMart in Mansfield used to carry them.

I bought a Colt AR15 at WalMart several years ago but they stopped carrying AR's and said they are dedicating to hunting rifles.