I Think We're Done...

[Abraham]

cyphur,

Would I be wrong in guessing you're a left leaning liberal?

It seems most conservatives view 'transgender' issues with a very jaundiced eye and liberals embrace (a holy word for liberals) defend, excuse all manner of questionable weirdness.

Case in point: So-called Chelsea Manning, the transgender spy once named Bradley, currently an inmate in prison, but still in the military, had his/her hormone therapy (therapy?) paid for by the military.

Stories like Manning's where the ACLU comes into the picture and rationalize that providing hormone therapy is no different than providing medication if he/she were to have a heart attack. What a crock.

So yes, this is the kind of nonsense that make folks think we're done...

[cyphur]

I have a sincerely held belief, based on faith, that I am a cat. It is therefore a fact, not subject to disproof. I am insulted that anyone questions that fact and I believe in using the force of the federal government to require the rest of you to accommodate the fact that I am a cat. The bigots in the military should not be able to keep me out for simply having the pointy ear surgery and mewling instead of grunting or yelling. I am quite capable of fulfilling my duties with minor accommodation of fresh kitty litter for my bathroom.

Well I believe you should be able to join the military if you want, just buy your own darn kitty litter.

Bingo.

[cyphur]

cyphur,

Would I be wrong in guessing you're a left leaning liberal?

It seems most conservatives view 'transgender' issues with a very jaundiced eye and liberals embrace (a holy word for liberals) defend, excuse all manner of questionable weirdness.

Case in point: So-called Chelsea Manning, the transgender spy once named Bradley, currently an inmate in prison, but still in the military, had his/her hormone therapy (therapy?) paid for by the military.

Stories like Manning's where the ACLU comes into the picture and rationalize that providing hormone therapy is no different than providing medication if he/she were to have a heart attack. What a crock.

So yes, this is the kind of nonsense that make folks think we're done...

You would be incorrect. I have little respect for closed minds on either side and particulalry do not think extreme views on either side of the aisle are productive.

I care about the Constitution, individual rights and government non-interference.

I also do not believe the government should be paying for elective abortions OR SRS. But I believe the government needs to respect those decisions/rights all the same.

My views however are not indluenced by any kind of Christian-based code of morality. As a result I come across as a dichotomy to many, rather often.

[LucasMcCain]

Truth based on faith is subjective. Truth based on fact is not. I think you would find the same to be true in a Christian vs Muslim debate. Many of those who identify as transgender I doubt share your faith or your conviction. Hence, both parties think they own the truth.

I never brought i to debate whether gender identification was scientifically factual or if it fit under the realm of a psychological disorder. What I did say, was that the fact that this country is going to heck, really has nothing to do with transgender SJW activities. The foundation was laid hindreds of years ago and in the past 50 or so social indulgence and those obsessed with equality have eroded the American dream.

I did not ask anyone to agree with me, or change their mind. I did offer a different perspective. Why an intelligent respectful conversation has turned into something like this is a shame.

Truth based on faith only seems subjective to those who lack it. While you can disagree with this truth, truth is absolute, and you are wrong. I don't mean to offend you by stating this basic truth, but you state that because others disagree with my views, they are not valid but instead subjective. This is offensive to me and simply untrue. Truth is absolute, but not everyone will recognize and acknowledge it as such. Others may disagree on what the truth is, such as in the Christian vs Muslim debate. However, only one group is correct. Truth is absolute and one of those groups is wrong. To say that they are both subjectively correct along with everyone else who has a differing view is naive. They can't all be right, because their "truths" conflict with one another. Here is a simple example:

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

This is foundational to the Christian religion. Other belief systems disagree with this statement. They cannot both be true. There is only one truth. It is absolute, independent of whether you believe it or not.

I don't wish to run afoul of forum rules (I don't think I have yet), so I think I will end my participation in this discussion at this point. I hope you don't feel personally attacked by my response. I do not intend it that way at all. I simply wish to help you realize that just because there are differing views on a subject doesn't mean that both parties are right.

[Javier730]

cyphur,

Would I be wrong in guessing you're a left leaning liberal?

It seems most conservatives view 'transgender' issues with a very jaundiced eye and liberals embrace (a holy word for liberals) defend, excuse all manner of questionable weirdness.

Case in point: So-called Chelsea Manning, the transgender spy once named Bradley, currently an inmate in prison, but still in the military, had his/her hormone therapy (therapy?) paid for by the military.

Stories like Manning's where the ACLU comes into the picture and rationalize that providing hormone therapy is no different than providing medication if he/she were to have a heart attack. What a crock.

So yes, this is the kind of nonsense that make folks think we're done...

You would be incorrect. I have little respect for closed minds on either side and particulalry do not think extreme views on either side of the aisle are productive.

I care about the Constitution, individual rights and government non-interference.

I also do not believe the government should be paying for elective abortions OR SRS. But I believe the government needs to respect those decisions/rights all the same.

My views however are not indluenced by any kind of Christian-based code of morality. As a result I come across as a dichotomy to many, rather often.

Well said cyphur.

[parabelum]

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Amen Brother.

All of these "subjective truth" arguments presented here are nothing but reductio ad absurdum arguments, for the truth to be truly subjective, it would have to be a lie.

All the double speak, and all the Freudian pretzel twisting cannot change the fact that you are what God made you to be.

I know...it is a bummer for some to accept but that's the way that it is. Truthfully.

[K.Mooneyham]

One of the problems with our modern society is that a lot of the foundations Western civilization was built upon have been eroded or replaced with things seemingly more "hip" or trendy. We owe the Greeks for our philosophy, the Romans for our organizations, and the British for our language and basis of laws, just for some examples. But we also owe the Jews of the Bible for our moral foundations. All these things woven together helped bring about Western civilization, but they have been under attack for a long time. Collectivists (for want of a better term) have done their best to destroy all those things because they want to bring down Western civilization and replace it with a globalist civilization. So, some may look down their nose at the building blocks of our society, but I am proud to stand on the shoulders of giants.

[jb2012]

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Amen Brother.

All of these "subjective truth" arguments presented here are nothing but reductio ad absurdum arguments, for the truth to be truly subjective, it would have to be a lie.

All the double speak, and all the Freudian pretzel twisting cannot change the fact that you are what God made you to be.

I know...it is a bummer for some to accept but that's the way that it is. Truthfully.

[Abraham]

cyphur & Javier730

Quoting from my previous post:

Case in point: "So-called Chelsea Manning, the transgender spy once named Bradley, currently an inmate in prison, but still in the military, had his/her hormone therapy (therapy?) paid for by the military."

Is my disgust regarding the above an example of a closed mind or an extreme view?

To me the military is pandering to freaks like Bradley Manning. His is another example of the world going mad.

Do you think the military paying for the treatment of Bradley Manning is not extreme?

Or, do you think it perfectly reasonable and acceptable?

[cyphur]

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Amen Brother.

All of these "subjective truth" arguments presented here are nothing but reductio ad absurdum arguments, for the truth to be truly subjective, it would have to be a lie.

All the double speak, and all the Freudian pretzel twisting cannot change the fact that you are what God made you to be.

I know...it is a bummer for some to accept but that's the way that it is. Truthfully.

I think what most people fail to acknowledge is that faith is belief in the absence of empirical or a posteriori evidence. As such, faith is a belief in something that cannot be proven beyond all doubt. This is not conjecture, a reductio ad absurdum argument, or anything of the sort. I've known several people who have devout faith who can acknowledge their faith for exactly what it is. Truth out of faith is effectively a truth dependency on something without empirically proven basis. Your truth originating out of your faith is not a lie - in your eyes, but to project your faith on others is just plain rude.

I have a lot of respect for people who have been gifted with faith, I'm just not among them.

[parabelum]

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Amen Brother.

All of these "subjective truth" arguments presented here are nothing but reductio ad absurdum arguments, for the truth to be truly subjective, it would have to be a lie.

All the double speak, and all the Freudian pretzel twisting cannot change the fact that you are what God made you to be.

I know...it is a bummer for some to accept but that's the way that it is. Truthfully.

I think what most people fail to acknowledge is that faith is belief in the absence of empirical or a posteriori evidence. As such, faith is a belief in something that cannot be proven beyond all doubt. This is not conjecture, a reductio ad absurdum argument, or anything of the sort. I've known several people who have devout faith who can acknowledge their faith for exactly what it is. Truth out of faith is effectively a truth dependency on something without empirically proven basis. Your truth originating out of your faith is not a lie - in your eyes, but to project your faith on others is just plain rude.

I have a lot of respect for people who have been gifted with faith, I'm just not among them.

"Does evil exist?

The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"

"God created everything? The professor asked.

"Yes sir", the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down. "

*****Anonymous author**** - some say Einstein but it has never been confirmed.

[Javier730]

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Amen Brother.

All of these "subjective truth" arguments presented here are nothing but reductio ad absurdum arguments, for the truth to be truly subjective, it would have to be a lie.

All the double speak, and all the Freudian pretzel twisting cannot change the fact that you are what God made you to be.

I know...it is a bummer for some to accept but that's the way that it is. Truthfully.

I think what most people fail to acknowledge is that faith is belief in the absence of empirical or a posteriori evidence. As such, faith is a belief in something that cannot be proven beyond all doubt. This is not conjecture, a reductio ad absurdum argument, or anything of the sort. I've known several people who have devout faith who can acknowledge their faith for exactly what it is. Truth out of faith is effectively a truth dependency on something without empirically proven basis. Your truth originating out of your faith is not a lie - in your eyes, but to project your faith on others is just plain rude.

I have a lot of respect for people who have been gifted with faith, I'm just not among them.

"Does evil exist?

The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"

"God created everything? The professor asked.

"Yes sir", the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down. "

*****Anonymous author**** - some say Einstein but it has never been confirmed.

Nice but you can replace a few characters in that story to fit the area of the world you are in. The author being anonymous makes that a whole lot easier.

[Javier730]

cyphur & Javier730

Quoting from my previous post:

Case in point: "So-called Chelsea Manning, the transgender spy once named Bradley, currently an inmate in prison, but still in the military, had his/her hormone therapy (therapy?) paid for by the military."

Is my disgust regarding the above an example of a closed mind or an extreme view?

To me the military is pandering to freaks like Bradley Manning. His is another example of the world going mad.

Do you think the military paying for the treatment of Bradley Manning is not extreme?

Or, do you think it perfectly reasonable and acceptable?

No I don't believe the military should be paying for the change of a person genitals or hormones. That is what I many with this.

I have a sincerely held belief, based on faith, that I am a cat. It is therefore a fact, not subject to disproof. I am insulted that anyone questions that fact and I believe in using the force of the federal government to require the rest of you to accommodate the fact that I am a cat. The bigots in the military should not be able to keep me out for simply having the pointy ear surgery and mewling instead of grunting or yelling. I am quite capable of fulfilling my duties with minor accommodation of fresh kitty litter for my bathroom.

Well I believe you should be able to join the military if you want, just buy your own darn kitty litter.

[parabelum]

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Amen Brother.

All of these "subjective truth" arguments presented here are nothing but reductio ad absurdum arguments, for the truth to be truly subjective, it would have to be a lie.

All the double speak, and all the Freudian pretzel twisting cannot change the fact that you are what God made you to be.

I know...it is a bummer for some to accept but that's the way that it is. Truthfully.

I think what most people fail to acknowledge is that faith is belief in the absence of empirical or a posteriori evidence. As such, faith is a belief in something that cannot be proven beyond all doubt. This is not conjecture, a reductio ad absurdum argument, or anything of the sort. I've known several people who have devout faith who can acknowledge their faith for exactly what it is. Truth out of faith is effectively a truth dependency on something without empirically proven basis. Your truth originating out of your faith is not a lie - in your eyes, but to project your faith on others is just plain rude.

I have a lot of respect for people who have been gifted with faith, I'm just not among them.

"Does evil exist?

The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"

"God created everything? The professor asked.

"Yes sir", the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down. "

*****Anonymous author**** - some say Einstein but it has never been confirmed.

Nice but you can replace a few characters in that story to fit the area of the world you are in.

Go ahead, I'm curious

Also explain the benefits of this gender perversion for our military and our Nation. You know, in laymen's terms that we can understand.

[Javier730]

Jesus said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

Amen Brother.

All of these "subjective truth" arguments presented here are nothing but reductio ad absurdum arguments, for the truth to be truly subjective, it would have to be a lie.

All the double speak, and all the Freudian pretzel twisting cannot change the fact that you are what God made you to be.

I know...it is a bummer for some to accept but that's the way that it is. Truthfully.

I think what most people fail to acknowledge is that faith is belief in the absence of empirical or a posteriori evidence. As such, faith is a belief in something that cannot be proven beyond all doubt. This is not conjecture, a reductio ad absurdum argument, or anything of the sort. I've known several people who have devout faith who can acknowledge their faith for exactly what it is. Truth out of faith is effectively a truth dependency on something without empirically proven basis. Your truth originating out of your faith is not a lie - in your eyes, but to project your faith on others is just plain rude.

I have a lot of respect for people who have been gifted with faith, I'm just not among them.

"Does evil exist?

The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"

"God created everything? The professor asked.

"Yes sir", the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down. "

*****Anonymous author**** - some say Einstein but it has never been confirmed.

Nice but you can replace a few characters in that story to fit the area of the world you are in.

Go ahead, I'm curious

Also explain the benefits of this gender perversion for our military and our Nation. You know, in laymen's terms that we can understand.

Well first you can change God to any deity and change the supposed author from Einstein to any scholar, scientist, philosopher, or any other person who is considered brilliant. The purpose of that would be so the story appeals to the majority of the people in that area.

Also what in your opinion do you believe is the gender perversion you would like me to explain? Transgendered people being catered to or transgendered people in general?