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It's been pretty well established in most circles of .38 Spl. shooters on and offline that the .38 Spl.+P is safe to shoot in reputable S&W revolvers made past 1956 and Colt revolvers made past 1931 (although the factory today officially considers prewar guns to be off limits to +P). The consensus even among shooters of guns made prior to the above said dates is: "Yes it is SAFE to shoot."
Beyond that there seems to be some disagreement with what is HEALTHY for the gun.
Many say (particularly in prewar guns or 1945 and back)that "yes your gun will handle +P but don't give it a steady diet."
Other's say, with FIRM confidence and even claimed firsthand longterm experience, that +P's are NOT hot loads at all and you can pretty much put as many as you want through the gun and the gun will stay firm and true even for your grandchildren to shoot.
Some even say some +P+ (a relative pressure term I understand)rounds or hot handloads handle fine in even prewar guns......or even airweight guns like the S&W M-37 or the Colt Agent. In fact, I recall in Ed Lovette's book "The Snubby" showing pictures and discussing use of the +P+ LSWCHP .38 round like pass the salt.

On the other hand, I've seen pictures of Colt Agents, Cobras and I think even steel frame Detective Specials blown to pieces in Jerry Kuhnhusen's book Colt DA Revolvers a Shop Manual Vol. 1 from shooting +P+ ammo.

I personally saw a S&W Chief's Special/M36 laying in a box blown to pieces from "firing Blazer Ammo" (I would say reloaded blazer ammo...but the gun was blown up regardless of what brand)

There is a new invention called .357 Magnum that is a .38 special +P+

NEVER try to fire a .357 Mag round in a .38 special..but you can shoot .38 special all day in a .357 Mag pistol

.38 Special
357 Magnum

Why risk blowing a piece of history into tiny irreparable peaces?

Doug.38PR wrote: On the other hand, I've seen pictures of Colt Agents, Cobras and I think even steel frame Detective Specials blown to pieces in Jerry Kuhnhusen's book Colt DA Revolvers a Shop Manual Vol. 1 from shooting +P+ ammo.

Kuhnhansen knows his stuff IMO. His books are great.

Since Molon brought up the latest greatest 357 magnum and Frank the Yank brought up Kuhnhusen, I do remember seeing a Python .357 Magnum in pieces in his book too. Even the .357 Magnum is not invunerable. I would possible for some fool to jack up a .38 cartridge with enough hot powder to the max....he could end up without a gun....and a hand (and I mean as much as you can possibly compact in that shell)

something that I have thought about doing with my wee 2" .357 is to get the .38spl +P
as it stands, I'll practice ALL day long with regular ol' WWB 38's, but I do not particularly like practicing any with the .357's!
wonder if the hot 38's would be much of a reduction in recoil as compared to the .357, or if it simply wouldn't be worth it...
lose all the benefits of .357 without gaining the lowered recoil of .38s

whatch'all think?

.38 special
Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
110 gr JHP 980 ft/s
(~299 m/s) 235 ft·lbf
(~320 J)
130 gr FMJ 810 ft/s
(~247 m/s) 189 ft·lbf
(~257 J)
148 gr LWC 690 ft/s
(~210 m/s) 156 ft·lbf
(~212 J)
158 gr LRN 770 ft/s
(~235 m/s) 208 ft·lbf
(~283 J)
Test barrel length: 4 in (vented)

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.357 mag
Ballistic performance
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
130 gr JHP 1410 ft/s
(~430 m/s) 574 ft·lbf
(~781 J)
158 gr JSP 1240 ft/s
(~378 m/s) 539 ft·lbf
(~733 J)
180 gr Lead 1060 ft/s
(~323 m/s) 449 ft·lbf
(~611 J)
Test barrel length: 4 in (vented)

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no contest!!!!!

There is a reason its called a MAGNUM, shoot .38 special when you are plinking...shoot .357 Mag when you want to protect your lovedones

Recoil will more than likely be almost indistinguishable between a HOT loaded .38 and a standard loaded .357Mag, but rupture a thin walled brass case designed for low pressure and you will DEFINITELY see/feel/taste/bleed the difference

DoubleJ
I recommend you check out http://www.buffalobore.com and look at their .38 Spl+P rounds. Specifically their comments on them. They are basically low end magnums in .38 Spl. cartridges that are still within +P standards. You get over 1000 ft per second out of a 2 inch barrel (close to 1200 out of a 4 inch).
In addition to that, the .38 Spl. cartridge is shorter than the .357 magnum and will be easier to eject, especially with a 2 inch barrel ejector rod, than a .38 Spl than a .357.

Molon,
right, you will feel the difference. But I was talking specifically about a .38 Spl. Hot HANDLOADED not factory standards which is what you were quoting. In fact, I believe the .357 magnum cartridge was invented soley to make a 1/8th longer case just so it would NOT fit into a .38 Spl. revolver. IOW, you could jack up a .38 Spl. about as much as you could a standard .357 magnum or more, but to be on the safe side, they made .357 ammo cartridges and fit it only for .357 guns so idiots or ignorants would not simply start dropping overcharged ammo in the wrong gun and, as you said "see/feel/bleed the difference"

Absolutely true...but the .357 Magnum cartridge is designed to hold over 2x the case pressure of the .38 special

Why not shave down some .357Mag cartridges and low load them then to make .38 special +p...it would almost make more sense as the beefed up .357 shell itself is thicker, but WILL THE FIREARM HOLD UP??

I wouldn't bet on it

as the beefed up .357 shell itself is thicker

Really? This I didn't know. IC your point.

But, if the shell is thicker....and you did shave it down to .38 spl length....then you would get less than you would packing up a .38 spl. load to begin with since there is less room in the shell as the walls are thicker yet still the same diameter as a whole with the .38 spl. shell.

Doug.38PR wrote:

as the beefed up .357 shell itself is thicker

Really? This I didn't know. IC your point.

But, if the shell is thicker....and you did shave it down to .38 spl length....then you would get less than you would packing up a .38 spl. load to begin with since there is less room in the shell as the walls are thicker yet still the same diameter as a whole with the .38 spl. shell.

Yes, but the stronger case would, theoretically, allow the use of magnum powders. I still wouldn't try it in a "normal" .38 Special. An old .38/.44 Hand Ejector (the N-frame ancestor of the original .357 Magnum from S&W) should handle the hotter loads just fine; in fact, it was with .38/.44s that the .357 was developed. Good luck finding a .38/.44 though - I've only ever seen one, and it was somewhat butchered by a bubba-gunsmith.

Now, I DO want to try taking some empty .38 S&W brass and running it through a 9x19 sizing die, then loading with .355 bullets at moderate velocities. Ought to make moon clips in 9mm revolvers (S&W 940) unnecessary, and allow me to carry a speed strip instead of a moon clip, which can bend. I've already dropped .38 S&W rounds in the chambers, and they fit, but I'm hesitant to fire them in a 9mm revolver as-is, due to the differences in bullet diameter (.38 S&W has a slightly fatter bullet). The revolver could handle a few rounds that way, but it would spit lead something fierce.

oooooooh, I see .38-44 S&W revolvers (at least one or two) every gunshow I go to in Houston

Well back to the original question:

38+P and gun health.

Keep in mind there is not a real standard as to how faster a +P is. 10% or 20%???? I believe, or perhaps I should say I interpret, from al the talk on the subject is one person can have a firearm and run a particular brand and type of +P through it with out any problems, and yet another with the same model but different ammo can have major problems.

IF it where me, I'd use a .357 mag, but take advantage of the new smokeless powders designed to work in the big cowboy action brass, to make low powered rounds.

I though about it with my .44mag, but my revolver is heavy enough the recoil is no bother to me.

mcub wrote: Keep in mind there is not a real standard as to how faster a +P is. 10% or 20%???? I believe, or perhaps I should say I interpret, from al the talk on the subject is one person can have a firearm and run a particular brand and type of +P through it with out any problems, and yet another with the same model but different ammo can have major problems.

There *are* SAAMI standards for +P ammunition, which makes it lots easier to deal with. It's +P+ that there are no SAAMI standards for, which *can* make it dangerous, and which will void the warranties on many guns.