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hey does anybody know if this venue is posted legally ,I recently went to the improv on i-10 and it had the old Unlic. poss. gun sign so i was wondering if the laff stop is posted or does anybody know if its 51 percent posted

bevans wrote:hey does anybody know if this venue is posted legally ,I recently went to the improv on i-10 and it had the old Unlic. poss. gun sign so i was wondering if the laff stop is posted or does anybody know if its 51 percent posted

I am not 100% but I would imagine they are 51%. I can't imagine they sell much food other then finger food and they always have a 2 drink minimum.

But they also sell tickets. Does tickets + food + non alc drinks = >51%? I would think so. I spend more on non alcohol when I go.

rm9792 wrote:But they also sell tickets. Does tickets + food + non alc drinks = >51%? I would think so. I spend more on non alcohol when I go.

True...I never thought about the door sales since the few times I have been have been on free tickets.

I would have sworn that the improv would have been off limits but they were not and when we went to the improv the tickets were 75%of our expense and the nasty nachos and two cokes each were the rest.

Can't you contact the TABC and find out the actual status (with regards to 51%) of an establishment?

Sangiovese wrote:Can't you contact the TABC and find out the actual status (with regards to 51%) of an establishment?

Yes, you can. Licensing is a public record.

Sangiovese wrote:Can't you contact the TABC and find out the actual status (with regards to 51%) of an establishment?

I actually attempted to contact the TABC to get a list of all 51% establishments in Harris County. The response was this: "There is no easy way to get this type of information. Calculations are done for each license at the time the license is printed. Sign = Red or Blue is not stored in our database." To their credit, they did send me an excel file of all the licensees sorted by whether the name contained "bar" or "club vs. "cafe" or "restaurant," but this is obviously of limited use for the types of businesses we're wondering about.

I personally find it quite annoying that it's so difficult to tell where you are allowed to carry or not. Some places don't have their licenses posted prominently.

If you want to try and figure out which is which you can download the data from here.

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publicinquiry/Roster.aspx

mdek wrote:

Sangiovese wrote:Can't you contact the TABC and find out the actual status (with regards to 51%) of an establishment?

I actually attempted to contact the TABC to get a list of all 51% establishments in Harris County. The response was this: "There is no easy way to get this type of information. Calculations are done for each license at the time the license is printed. Sign = Red or Blue is not stored in our database." To their credit, they did send me an excel file of all the licensees sorted by whether the name contained "bar" or "club vs. "cafe" or "restaurant," but this is obviously of limited use for the types of businesses we're wondering about.

I personally find it quite annoying that it's so difficult to tell where you are allowed to carry or not. Some places don't have their licenses posted prominently.

The code says
GC §411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES.
(a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter
25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51
percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage
Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business
premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
...
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give
notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person
licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises.
The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least
one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed
in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in
a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

I think this means that if they do NOT display the 51% sign, it's ok to carry unless a 30.06 sign is displayed.

Well i went by there this morning and no signage by the doors and in peering thru the window i didnt see any signage by the bar so i am going to carry and hope for the best. Like everybody says CONCEALED IS CONCEALED, AND TICKETS TONITE ARE 25$each so i just dont see how they could derive 51% off liquor sales.

Well I went to the show tonite and there is no signage anywhere.

austin-tatious wrote:I think this means that if they do NOT display the 51% sign, it's ok to carry unless a 30.06 sign is displayed.

I would like to agree with you but the law in the Penal code says you cannot carry in a premises that derives 51% of its income from alcohol sales as determined by TABC. It does not say it has to be posted. You could be arrested and charged, though I think it would provide a great defense.

What just came to me as I was typing is that you might be able to use an entrapment defense if it is not properly posted. For the officer to know it is 51% and not correct the signage could be construed as enticing you to break a law you would not otherwise break, which is the definition of entrapment.

The problem with the code quoted requiring the sign is that it is an administrative violation against the bar to violate that section. TABC can take action against them, but it provides you with no real protection.

srothstein wrote:

austin-tatious wrote:I think this means that if they do NOT display the 51% sign, it's ok to carry unless a 30.06 sign is displayed.

I would like to agree with you but the law in the Penal code says you cannot carry in a premises that derives 51% of its income from alcohol sales as determined by TABC. It does not say it has to be posted. You could be arrested and charged, though I think it would provide a great defense.

What just came to me as I was typing is that you might be able to use an entrapment defense if it is not properly posted. For the officer to know it is 51% and not correct the signage could be construed as enticing you to break a law you would not otherwise break, which is the definition of entrapment.

The problem with the code quoted requiring the sign is that it is an administrative violation against the bar to violate that section. TABC can take action against them, but it provides you with no real protection.

This is a bad situation for us. I don't go to bars (though situations like this might drive me to drink! ) but if I did, I don't think it would be hard to figure out a bar does not get very much non-alcohol sales and it should be obvious I cannot carry in one - signage or not. However, situations like this "not obvously a bar" laff stop place (IF it is a 51% establishment), put us all at risk of expensive legal complications. Let's say this scenario happened and I was arrested but found not guilty, I would think a civil suit to recover damages from the establishment for failing to post 51% would be in order and "winnable" Do you think?

bevans wrote:Well I went to the show tonite and there is no signage anywhere.

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Good to know...Thanks for the report.