TexasCHLforum.com

Posted: **Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:05 pm**

Could someone put 9.41 into laymans terms as it applies to 9.42 and 9.43.

The way I read it, 9.41 applies during the attempted burglary (robbery, theft, etc). Up until the the crime actually happens. Am I right?

Posted: **Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:59 pm**

Well, let's pull it up.

PC Â§9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible, movable property by another is justified in using force against the other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

IMHO, (a) applies before the offense has taken place or while the theft is in progress. Examples of this:

Someone is trying to open your gate.
Someone is trying to get into your unoccupied car or remove the hubcaps.

(b) applies after a trespass or theft is accomplished.

In the case of theft, it would apply to someone who is fleeing with the property.

Remember, we're talking about force here, not deadly force.

As usual, IANAL.

- Jim

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:25 pm**

As I understand it, 9.41 tells when FORCE may be used to protect one's own property. 9.42 tells when DEADLY FORCE may be used by you to protect your property; or the police to protect any property. 9.43 tells when DEADLY FORCE may be used by a relative, guardian or a security detail to protect property. I also believe 9.43 may apply to the interruption of a property crime. Help me out on this one. I would bet this is a statute that has a long history.

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:12 pm**

TacShot wrote: may be used by a relative, guardian or a security detail to protect property. I also believe 9.43 may apply to the interruption of a property crime.

That's how I understand it.

to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime

IOW, you are justified in using deadly force to prevent the commission of the crimes listed against a third person, or to recover the property.

The difficulty with property of a third person is that you have to be sure that it was the other person's property and that it was stolen or damaged.

If you see someone setting your neighbor's house on fire, there's no doubt.

If you see someone climbing in the neighbor's window, it may or may not be burglary. It could be the neighor's weird brother-in-law who just likes to do that sort of thing.

- Jim

Posted: **Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:56 pm**

TacShot wrote:As I understand it, 9.41 tells when FORCE may be used to protect one's own property. 9.42 tells when DEADLY FORCE may be used by you to protect your property; or the police to protect any property. 9.43 tells when DEADLY FORCE may be used by a relative, guardian or a security detail to protect property. I also believe 9.43 may apply to the interruption of a property crime. Help me out on this one. I would bet this is a statute that has a long history.

These sections of the use of force laws apply to everyone, including you, me, the cops and security guards.

9.41 is when you can use less than deadly force. 9.42 outlines when you can use deadly force to protect your own property, and 9.43 is using force or deadly force to protect a third person's property.