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I have a decent knowledge of guns in general, however I know almost nothing about 1911's. I carry a Glock.

I was watching Personal Defense TV the other day. Clint Smith (Thunder Ranch) said they had a lot of failures from 1911's with guide rod springs & that he was big fan of the original John Browning design. My question is this: which 1911's typically have these guide rod springs & which ones don't??? Also, what do they have if they do not have these??? I know Clint Smith uses Les Baer, but I am not interested in spending $2K + for a 1911.

Please educate me. I am not trying to start a flame war or have opinions on which is better/worse than the other. Just trying to learn. Thanks!

Bonus points to anyone who has any detailed pics of ones with/without guide rod springs.

All 1911s have recoil springs which is what you are referring to.
The standard setup uses a short spring guide that does not go full length of the spring.
There is an aftermarket mod that uses a full-length guide rod. this is a controversial mod, some swear by it, some swear at it as it makes field stripping a little harder. Looks more precise, but many people thinks it's no improvement over the original.

There are many failures attributed to the full length 2peice guide rods...

The factory short rod/cap that browning designed it great, but it doesn't feel as well as the full length IMO... The full length makes hte action smoother and in my experience improves lock up speed...

Just like everything with 1911's it's one way or another for many... some swear full length cause problems, some swear they decrease problems..

Some want, some don't...

it's personal, try both... If you're in hte DFW area, i'll gladly let you try both setups.

I have a few 1911s , some with full-length guide rods and some without. They are not necessary, but as already mentioned, some people like them. I have only two-piece FLGRs, because it's easier to strip the pistol with them as compared to the one-piece rods.

Two-piece rods can shoot loose and the female end really gets hammered! It causes a blunderbuss effect and the recoil spring can hang. All you have to do is make sure to tighten it during your range session. You can also try blue Loctite, but I don't do that.

My pistolsmith says a FLGR extends the service life of recoil springs. He a wizard with 1911s so I believe he is correct.

Chas.

Rereading this, I wonder if what Clint was referring to on the show bluelineman saw was a two-piece 1911 guide rod with an internal, secondary spring? A la a Sprinco setup (http://www.sprinco.com/recoil.html).

Edited to prove that I can actually spell the seven-letter name, "Sprinco."

Thanks for all the replies. I've looked at some manuals from different manufacturers on http://stevespages.com/page7b.htm. I think I'm very slowly figuring some things out.

Skiprr wrote:Rereading this, I wonder if what Clint was referring to on the show bluelineman saw was a two-piece 1911 guide rod with an internal, secondary spring? A la a Sprinco setup (http://www.sprinco.com/recoil.html).

Edited to prove that I can actually spell the seven-letter name, "Sprinco."

I was thinking along those lines myself. I've also seen dual spring setups run into problems as the springs would bind against each other. Otherwise, my experience with FLGRs is they cause no problems with reliability. On the other hand, whether or not a FLGR helps reliability is debatable. At a subjective level, some feel their 1911's run smoother but just many people can't tell the difference.

G.C.Montgomery wrote:

Skiprr wrote:Rereading this, I wonder if what Clint was referring to on the show bluelineman saw was a two-piece 1911 guide rod with an internal, secondary spring? A la a Sprinco setup (http://www.sprinco.com/recoil.html).

Edited to prove that I can actually spell the seven-letter name, "Sprinco."

I was thinking along those lines myself. I've also seen dual spring setups run into problems as the springs would bind against each other. Otherwise, my experience with FLGRs is they cause no problems with reliability. On the other hand, whether or not a FLGR helps reliability is debatable. At a subjective level, some feel their 1911's run smoother but just many people can't tell the difference.

the FLGR on my 1911 seems to make lock up smoother when actioning by hand... to me it simply feels "smoother" and in a 1911 we all want that smooth glass feel the slide is moved.

although i have to admit the standard GR is over 30years old and still works perfectly.

bluelineman,

I have both as well and have never had a problem with either. The buffers that some manufacturers use are not my favorite however.

We can meet up at the range this week if you want to try both.

Check your PM's

I have a 2 piece FLGR both in my Colt Commander (my carry gun) and in my full-sized Kimber that is set up for bullseye shooting. I also use Wilson Shok-Bufs to prevent frame battering.

Never had any problems. But I can't say I had problems with the original short guide rods either. The FLGR adds a few ounces to the front of the gun, possibly reducing muzzle flip but I can't say it's enough to notice. But they say every little bit helps, right?

Neither gun has ever had a stoppage due to the Shok-Buf. On the plus side, they show no signs of frame battering with several thousand rounds each through them.

Lykoi wrote: the FLGR on my 1911 seems to make lock up smoother when actioning by hand... to me it simply feels "smoother" and in a 1911 we all want that smooth glass feel the slide is moved.

although i have to admit the standard GR is over 30years old and still works perfectly.

FLGR do make things smoother some guns but, in my experience, if that is true, the gun needs to be thoroughly examined by a gunsmith. I've had guns in which FLGR made things appreciably smoother but ultimately found there were bigger problems and the FLGR was only treating the symptoms.

One gun in particular pistol comes to mind...I had an STI that I bought second-hand. This pistol's slide sat unusually low on the frame. As a result, there was less room between barrel and frame for the recoil spring and guide-rod. In this case, it was enough to cause the recoil spring to bind in the last .250-inch of travel unless I used an FLGR. The problem was corrected when my gunsmith trued the end of the frame rails and the seating area for the guide-rod.

One more thing...The standard guide-rod/plug setup in the 1911 actually over 100-years old since it is essentially unchanged from the model 1905. That system worked well from the introduction of the 1911 through two world wars, Korea, Vietnam as well as active use well into the 1980's and 1990's. Even today, 1911's continue serving in special units and agencies with standard-guide rods. I've personally put 220,000-250,000 through various 1911's of many different configurations over the last fifteen years. As a result, I'm convinced FLGR's are not necessary for reliable functioning in pistols that are in spec.

G.C.Montgomery wrote: One more thing...The standard guide-rod/plug setup in the 1911 actually over 100-years old since it is essentially unchanged from the model 1905.

so is the shovel... doesn't mean i won't buy a ditch witch if i need it ;)


I'm not a hardcore fan either way... the colt is in GREAT shape, just feels better with the FLGR... to each his own, to me both :)