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I've been advised by a few long time shooters not to use any weapon for home protection that would appear as if I was "planning to kill someone."
For example, one person told me not to load my shotgun with "OO" buckshot, but use birdshot instead. Another suggested a .38 instead of a .357 or larger caliber.

Their reasoning is that a grand jury would be less likely to indict someone who used a perceived less lethal weapon in a fatal shooting, than one with a high probability of lethal effect.

Is there any validity to this advise?

Chuck
Brownsville, TX

A couple of things:

1) The circumstances of a shooting (who, what, when, where, why?) are several orders of magnitude more relevant than whether an actor loaded his .357-capable wheelgun with .38 rounds because he thought it was more humane/compassionate/whatever to use those versus the full-power cartridges.

2) If someone feels threatened enough to break out the 12ga or a magnum revolver (ie, to use deadly force), he or she is best served loading the weapon with the most powerful cartridge he or she can control in said weapon, to stop a threat using the minimum number of cartridges.

In brief, I would consider what you heard to be very bad advice.

orc4hire wrote:You have been given poor advice.

I agree. Bird shot is a very poor choice against 2 legged varmints. If you want to protect yourself and your family from harm in your own home then you should get the best tools you can afford and the best ammo money can buy. Period.

HighVelocity wrote:

orc4hire wrote:You have been given poor advice.

I agree. Bird shot is a very poor choice against 2 legged varmints.

At what range?

I have a very open floorplan house, but the longest shot I could take would be about 36 feet, and that's if I'm standing with my back to the wall at one end of the hallway, and the BG is standing against the far wall of my living room. That's wall-to-wall distance, not muzzle to target.

A far more typical distance in a BG scenario would be 1-5 yards, because typical room sizes in an average American home are no more than 16' along the longest wall. We've got a 14x16' master bedroom, and a 20x21' living room, which are considered pretty large for a 1700 s.f. 3/2 ranch.

Even from my 18.5 inch cylinder choke Winnie 1300, a load of No. 8 is going to hit like a slug at 10-15 feet. That's why the first two rounds out of the tube will be birdshot, and the rest of the mag is No.4 buck. And there are four slugs in a buttsock; I'm prepared for all ranges from "across the bedroom" to "across the back yard".

Not that a shotgun is going to be my first choice. I'd rather not have both hands full of weapon. The first thing I'll reach for will be my P97 in my right hand, and either/or flashlight or cell phone in my left, depending on the circumstances.

Kevin

As usual...I am onboard with Orc & H.V. on this one...

As the situation dictates...My home defense handgun is there to give me a chance, and an opportunity, to get to said shotgun with 00 buck loaded up...

There is no reason to sweat the "legal" jeapardies in regards to what you use to defend yourself in your own home...

It used to be people did that with a baseball bat...Until the BeeGees came in with knives...Then people started using handguns, when the BeeGees came in with their own cheap guns...And so on and so on...

I only see this as a problem for the bad guys...

orc4hire wrote:

KBCraig wrote:Even from my 18.5 inch cylinder choke Winnie 1300, a load of No. 8 is going to hit like a slug at 10-15 feet. That's why the first two rounds out of the tube will be birdshot, and the rest of the mag is No.4 buck. And there are four slugs in a buttsock; I'm prepared for all ranges from "across the bedroom" to "across the back yard".

Have you actually tried that? Reason I ask is that I have. I've fired birdshot from a Winchester 1300 (20 gauge, 18") at a piece of cardboard about 20' away. The shot patterned fairly evenly in a circle a foot or more in diameter.

Yes, that's why I specified 10-15'.

Think about it: how many 20' shots can you make in your house, muzzle to target? If your house is that big or that open, then yeah, load up with buckshot.

Not that I object to loading up with buckshot to start with; I just prefer the No.8 to limit overpenetration.

Kevin

Rule # 1 have a gun.

Use that gun to stop the threat. Use the best or largest gun to stop the threat. Worry about the red tape later.

Does anyone know of a case that was procecuted where the weapons caliber was an issue?

In my mind shot is shot. The size of the hole is irrelevent.

Thanks for the great advise.

Chuck

RioShooter wrote:I've been advised by a few long time shooters not to use any weapon for home protection that would appear as if I was "planning to kill someone."
For example, one person told me not to load my shotgun with "OO" buckshot, but use birdshot instead. Another suggested a .38 instead of a .357 or larger caliber.

Their reasoning is that a grand jury would be less likely to indict someone who used a perceived less lethal weapon in a fatal shooting, than one with a high probability of lethal effect.

Is there any validity to this advise?

Chuck
Brownsville, TX

i took a report where the guy held two car burglars with a .454 Casull. it was one of the few guns the guy used for hunting. use what you got. i have AR15s, AK47s, FALs, lever and bolt guns, shotguns, and plenty of pistols. i wouldn't hesitate to use any of them for home defense. if i aim for your chest with a .223, i don't think it's going to matter whether it's a 5 shot bolt gun or a 30 round AR15. the only problem i see is if you empty the 30 round magazine.

on the other hand, i keep a .38 smith revolver made in 1923 in my wife's jewelry cabinet. all else stays locked up in cabinets throughout the house. :)

I hear this all of the time while teaching. There are urban myths that you should use perceived less lethal ammo, that you should never score a perfect score when testing, that you should not carry less lethal means of defense on your person while carry a firearm, etc.

Its all bunk. Regarding ammo choices, what I would worry about is overpenetration and striking an innocent, not "over-killing" the badguy.

Recording testing scores, all that is reported to the state, and the only records we keep, is whether you pass or fail anyway. I train to win, period.

I always carry a less-lethal means of defense, usually OC. There could easily be a time where using OC early in an encounter could keep it from esclating to a point where DF is necessary. No DF, no Grand Jury. ;)

After having seen this I rethought my "standard 'home-d'" loading for my shotgun.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

I used to keep one round of #6 chambered, followed by one in the mag, then two rounds of 00 Buck, then three slugs (Breneke), then one last 00.

I have changed to four rounds of 00 followed by four slugs.

jimlongley wrote:After having seen this I rethought my "standard 'home-d'" loading for my shotgun.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm

I used to keep one round of #6 chambered, followed by one in the mag, then two rounds of 00 Buck, then three slugs (Breneke), then one last 00.

I have changed to four rounds of 00 followed by four slugs.

the shotgun i use at work that comes home with me stays loaded with every other round being slug/00 buck. i keep it with the chamber empty, safety off, and the trigger pulled.