TexasCHLforum.com

Do you pull over for non-marked police or not?


http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/w ... 35709.html

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FORT WORTH — Two teens were taken into custody by police in Fort Worth early Thursday morning after officers said they witnessed the pair pull over another motorist in the 3500 block of East Lancaster Avenue.

At first, police said, the arresting officers moved in to help what they thought was a squad car from another jurisdiction. The Ford Taurus was equipped with authentic-looking red-and-blue flashing emergency lights, and the two men had police badges and weapons.

"The longer officers stood back there and noticed some of the mannerisms, one of our officers made the decision to approach this perceived fellow law enforcement officer just as that subject was walking back to the black Taurus," said Fort Worth police spokesman Lt. Dean Sullivan. "As the officer got a little closer, on inspection of that badge, it didn't look real."

Police said they did not know what the young men dressed as law enforcement officers intended to do with the driver they had pulled over.

"One subject had a shirt on that said, 'sheriff,'" said police spokesman R.P. Strittmatter. "Neither one of them were law enforcement officers."

The suspects were identified as Adnan Nazar Saleh, 18, and Lony Berry, 19. Both were charged with Impersonating a Public Servant, which is a 3rd degree felony offense. The charges carry a prison term of up to two years.

The men were equipped with an air pistol and pellet pistol, police said. The weapons were described by arresting officers as appearing very much like real guns.

The teens were taken to police headquarters for questioning. Detectives said they were looking into the possibility that Saleh and Berry are behind other reports of police impersonators in North Texas.

WFAA-TV photojournalist Mike Zukerman contributed to this report.

E-mail cvega@wfaa.com and dschechter@wfaa.com

Trying out for the TV show Jackass, no doubt.

A guy I knew in college did the same thing. He bought a used police cruiser and rigged the headlights to flash alternately. He pulled over one of his friends on Lake Shore Drive in Chicago as a joke. A real police car rolled up to investigate, and his police career was put on indefinite hold.

- Jim

This is one of the reasons I don't pull over in deserted areas.

maaaaaaaaaaaaan, that'd be a tough one, all you can see is flashing lights behind you, sure the cat at your window is a little young, but hey, maybe he's just outta the academy, but what about that 5 o'clock shadow, well maybe it's the end of his shift, gee that badge looks a lot like my CHL Badge (jk)....

I think since most of us either know a Cop or two, or used to be a Cop, we as a group would probably think something was hinky about the whole deal. but that's just my thoughts on the issue.

If a marked car attempts to pull you over you should stop. We all know what a police car looks like.

If an unmarked car tries to pull you over you have a couple of options.

1) Decide not to stop until there is a marked unit on the scene. To do this I would turn on my flashers, call 911 and report that a vehicle that did not appear to be a LE vehicle was trying to pull me over and I need help. I would drive slowly too, in case it was a real cop, at least it would show that I was NOT trying to get away or ignore him.

2) Decide to stop. If the person exiting the car did not appear to be a cop I would then drive off while calling 911.

txinvestigator wrote:I would drive slowly too, in case it was a real cop, at least it would show that I was NOT trying to get away or ignore him.

That's the key point I needed. I wondered how I would indicate my intent to stop but not in the immediate area. Thanks.

Do not just rely on the uniform and badge. You have the right to ask for department issued ID. If you are stopped and the individual can not provide ID, lock yourself in your ride and do the 911 thing.

Anyone can buy BDU pants, tacticool boots and shirts that say "sherrif" or "police". The fact that these incidents are becoming more frequent is disturbing. I do not want to risk having to do the "10 fingers on the fender, boy!" drill if I think I am pulled over by an imposter.

Anygun

txinvestigator wrote:If a marked car attempts to pull you over you should stop. We all know what a police car looks like.

If an unmarked car tries to pull you over you have a couple of options.

1) Decide not to stop until there is a marked unit on the scene. To do this I would turn on my flashers, call 911 and report that a vehicle that did not appear to be a LE vehicle was trying to pull me over and I need help. I would drive slowly too, in case it was a real cop, at least it would show that I was NOT trying to get away or ignore him.

2) Decide to stop. If the person exiting the car did not appear to be a cop I would then drive off while calling 911.

My rule of thumb is if it's unmarked, they better be in uniform (not BDU pants and "POLICE" T-shirt. Otherwise, I follow TXI's advice and drive off while making the call.

My wife has on-star. I've told her if there is ANY doubt whatsoever push the on-star emergency button and let the rep listen in and call the real LEO if needed.

anygunanywhere wrote:Do not just rely on the uniform and badge. You have the right to ask for department issued ID.

Actually no law requires that, and a cop in full uniform is not going to show you any. If you are referring to less than full uniform I wold agree, but there is still no "right" for you to see a department issued ID.

txinvestigator wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:Do not just rely on the uniform and badge. You have the right to ask for department issued ID.

Actually no law requires that, and a cop in full uniform is not going to show you any. If you are referring to less than full uniform I wold agree, but there is still no "right" for you to see a department issued ID.

Yes, TXI, I was referring to those not in full uniform.

It does not have to be law for it to be right. If I am stopped by someone in an unmarked car and the individual is in BDU and golf shirt with "Police" on it, he needs to produce an ID before I hand over my TDL and CHL. Yes, I do have the right to know that an actual LEO has pulled me over. It is called the Fourth Amendment, whether or not there is any case law or Texas law that supports it.

A right is a right even though it has been declared illegal or has been infringed. A right is a right even when trampled on by the state.

Anygun

This has been a serious problem in Houston with the most notirous example of a guy pulling over women and then raping them. I don't remember hearing if he ever got caught.

It's a tough call but if there is any doubt, don't stop. Simply drive slow and call 911. I know it will get immediate attention in the Houston area because of the history of imposters.

Know what the marked vehicles in your area look like. Houston has HPD, Constables, and Harris Co, Sherriff Department. Plus all the surrounding county departments. I've never seen an unmarked car have anyone pulled over in this area so I guess that would be a good indicator for Houston.

TDDude wrote:This has been a serious problem in Houston with the most notirous example of a guy pulling over women and then raping them. I don't remember hearing if he ever got caught.

It's a tough call but if there is any doubt, don't stop. Simply drive slow and call 911. I know it will get immediate attention in the Houston area because of the history of imposters.

Know what the marked vehicles in your area look like. Houston has HPD, Constables, and Harris Co, Sherriff Department. Plus all the surrounding county departments. I've never seen an unmarked car have anyone pulled over in this area so I guess that would be a good indicator for Houston.

There is a whole slew of the working I-10 around Beaumont. Not Crown Victorias. Expeditions, Tahoes, even saw a mini-van. None of the LEO's have what you would call uniforms. They all are wearing their tacticool best.

Anygun

anygunanywhere wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:

anygunanywhere wrote:Do not just rely on the uniform and badge. You have the right to ask for department issued ID.

Actually no law requires that, and a cop in full uniform is not going to show you any. If you are referring to less than full uniform I wold agree, but there is still no "right" for you to see a department issued ID.

Yes, TXI, I was referring to those not in full uniform.

It does not have to be law for it to be right. If I am stopped by someone in an unmarked car and the individual is in BDU and golf shirt with "Police" on it, he needs to produce an ID before I hand over my TDL and CHL. Yes, I do have the right to know that an actual LEO has pulled me over. It is called the Fourth Amendment, whether or not there is any case law or Texas law that supports it.


Anygun

????

Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized

What does that have to do with fake cops?

Texas law requires that you obey Peace Officers, not Joe Faker. Refusing to show ID to someone you reasonably believe is Joe Faker has nothing to do with the 4th, at all.

Back to the topic, asking for a uniformed officer or further asking for proof of LEO is not unreasonable in the situation you described.

Ya know, it's easy to say what you would do, but...really, do you really KNOW what you would do?

Police departments in the DFW Metroplex drive everything from Camaros to Suburbans, a few F150 pickups, various sedans, and SUVs. Say it's dark, and all you can tell is that there is some sort of vehicle with flashing lights pulling up behind you. You surely can't see any markings at this point.

So you pull over. And the guy who gets out of the car is shining a big flashlight directly in your eyes. You can't see a thing, and he orders you out of the car.

What do you do? Do you get out? Do you refuse? Do you drive away?

You guys might have your answers, especially those who are, or have been, LEOs. But what about the rest of us? And what about your wife, daughter, mother, sister?

I just found out today that one of those boys went to the school I work at and several of my students know him well.