Page 1 of 3

So, I reached for it today

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:36 pm
by CJATE
As I choose my words, I don’t know why I am telling you, not sure you will care, and I am sure that many of you have had worse.

5:45pm I was down town at a clients, he is renovating an old run down hotel, it’s a bad neighborhood, and we had just finished a conversation about the local riff-raff . He has been a client for almost 6 months now, and frequenting his location IS what made me carry more often (almost all the time now). I wear a suit so deep cover is easy.

I was leaving, observed my environment. Walked to truck, habit has me hitting the keyless entry multiple times (once only unlocks the driver, twice gets them all, and that habit is done as of now). I get in, creak, and notice a flash in the passenger mirror all at the same time. I turn to see a man waving arms and banging on the passenger side of the bed of my truck as he approaches the front door. I turned to look, verified it was not my customer (perhaps I forgotten something). When I realized he was a stranger, while still turned to the rear observing his approach, and him reaching for the door handle, I slammed my hand on the lock button, but missed and the passenger window lowered (auto all the way when fully pressed). I turned to look at the button, and pressed it. looked back, but I was too slow and he was ½ way in to my passenger seat. Left foot in, left hand on seat, right hand pulling up (3/4 ton 4x4) on the handle, left butt check already on seat.
Him, “Dude, give me a ride�
Me �no, get out� I started to move for gun, 4’clock, IWB, over shirt, under suit jacket
Him: puzzled look, and but sliding further in, “come on, it’s 2 blocks (more about where, but I could not understand)� and he points, but still looking at me
Me: yelling “GET OUT OF MY TRUCK!� almost to gun and shaking, all the way through my voice
Him: looked down at my moving hand, and my torso leaning forward adjusting and turning, as I made room to draw. His mouth opened, eyes WIDE open, he slid out and took 1 step back “whoa� left hand up, (stop) but not reaching to shut door, right hand at side. he stopped backing, did not turn did not leave. At that moment I was more sacred, I just KNEW he would begin the same process I had begun just moments ago, and I did not want that

I reached up and slammed it in gear and tore out, door still open, window still down,,, but it mostly closed when I turned into traffic. I looked back, and he was sprinting for cover. It was over.

Unrelated my customer called moments latter to ask one last question, and I told him about the altercation (less the “I almost drew my gun� part). He had not seen it, but he was going to take a look around, and see if he could identify him with my description, he was honestly concerned, like many, they live on property.

What gets me the most, my wife frequently has meetings at the church across the street, and the Junior league office is 3 blocks over(night meetings). And I can’t get her to carry, she worries about the kid finding it, I ask how that is different from me, and she has no answer, but fully supports my caring.

Any of you “not comfortable� caring on body, and only leaving in auto, get over it. No way could I have made a move to a gun in my glove box or console, as he was inches from both, and I would have had nothing if it was still in the safe. Get a good holster; start around the house and on the weekends, and work up to all the time.

also, I know what I did wrong, and that is life.

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:07 pm
by WarHawk-AVG
YIKES!!!!

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:15 pm
by shootthesheet
Glad it worked out so you did not have to even display the weapon. The downside of IWB is when in a seated position and especially if a seatbelt is being worn. That is why I got one of these http://www.comp-tac.com/catalog/product ... ucts_id=45 for my P3AT BUG. The most I will lose is a shirt when I rip the buttons off of it to unholster. The holster hides well, especially under a tie. The P3AT is light enough that I hardly notice I have it too. Not what I would want to defend myself with but, better than a XD45 I can't reach.

The answer to most questions can be had for the price of another gun.
Shootthesheet :fire

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:29 pm
by LedJedi
yep man, that is way scarry.

I'm too big to effectively draw in the suv which is why when i'm in the car it's stuck between the seats in such a manner as to hold it securely and in a ready position.

I believe in that scenario I'd have probably backhanded the guy with all i was worth as soon as his butt hit my seat and would have slid out and drew down on him.

you handled it well from the sound of it.

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:34 am
by Target1911
The problem with using OC in this case (and most) is.....if you spray that stuff while in your car, you WILL EFFECTIVELY incapacitate YOURSELF too. Then you wouldnt be able to safely drive away and/or defend yourself. I hate that stuff. Is it better than nothing?...YES...but i will NEVER carry it again.

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:40 am
by tboesche
WOW! I think you did ok. I agree with th eposters about pepper spray in a car. Bad idea. Also, I would never bet my life on Pepper spray. When I was still in the military, we had to get shot with the stuff in order to carry it. I can attest to the fact that it sucks getting hit with it, BUT, there are people out there that can fight thru it. Come up against one of those guys, and you will wish you had gone for the gun first.

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:44 am
by Liko81
[HIJACK] You mentioned it was at 4:00. Which way do you orient the grip (towards your back or side)? There are pros and cons either way. Just curious. We now return you to your normal thread.[/HIJACK]

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:04 am
by propellerhead
Thanks for sharing. I have to pay more attention to unlocking my car. I have that same habit of multiple presses to unlock.

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:20 pm
by Mike1951
Considering non-lethal options, I bought both a stun gun and OC.

After some thought, I nixed the stun gun because it requires proximity while the OC allows some distance, at least.

However, I relegated the stun gun to truck carry for just this type of situation or someone reaching in through a window.

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:46 pm
by txinvestigator
Russell wrote:That's very scary! I would have done the same thing, so don't feel bad about reaching as I would have drawn down on him as well if I couldn't get to my pepper spray first. Anybody getting into your car without your permission is a deadly threat, and the law realizes that now thankfully:
I agree that CJATE was appropriate in his actions, but the law DOES NOT recognize that "Anybody getting into your car without your permission is a deadly threat"

PC §9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.
(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other
under Section 9.31; and
(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:

...

(b) The actor's belief under Subsection (a)(2) that the deadly force
was immediately necessary as described by that subdivision is
presumed to be reasonable if the actor:
(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom
the deadly force was used:
(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to
enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle,
or place of business or employment;
place of business or employment;
(B) unlawfully and with force removed, or was attempting to
remove unlawfully and with force, the actor from the actor's habitation,
vehicle, or place of business or employment;

....

(c) A person who has a right to be present at the location where the
deadly force is used, who has not provoked the person against whom
the deadly force is used, and who is not engaged in criminal activity at
the time the deadly force is used is not required to retreat before using
deadly force as described by this section.
Our bad guy did not use force. He entered an an unlocked door. CJATE's justification was 9.04

I have to admit that I sometimes push the unlock buttin twice. I need to stop doing that. :thumbs2:

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:17 pm
by propellerhead
txinvestigator wrote:Our bad guy did not use force. He entered an an unlocked door. CJATE's justification was 9.04
Isn't opening the door considered force? Was force not used at all? Ask an engineer and the answer is yes. I don't know what a judge/jury would say.

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:22 pm
by txinvestigator
propellerhead wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:Our bad guy did not use force. He entered an an unlocked door. CJATE's justification was 9.04
Isn't opening the door considered force? Was force not used at all? Ask an engineer and the answer is yes. I don't know what a judge/jury would say.
Here is my thinking; if simply entering was all that as required, the legislators would have not had to use the phrase 'with force", they simply could have written "(b)(1)(A) unlawfully entered", rather than, "unlawfully and with force".

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:27 pm
by LedJedi
txinvestigator wrote: Our bad guy did not use force. He entered an an unlocked door. CJATE's justification was 9.04

I have to admit that I sometimes push the unlock buttin twice. I need to stop doing that. :thumbs2:
Hey Tx, not disagreeing with you here, but can you draw me a line as to where the threat was made in the scenario to invoke 9.04? If you cited it i'm sure it's there, i'm just not seeing it.

Re: So, I reached for it today

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:51 pm
by txinvestigator
LedJedi wrote:
txinvestigator wrote: Our bad guy did not use force. He entered an an unlocked door. CJATE's justification was 9.04

I have to admit that I sometimes push the unlock buttin twice. I need to stop doing that. :thumbs2:
Hey Tx, not disagreeing with you here, but can you draw me a line as to where the threat was made in the scenario to invoke 9.04? If you cited it i'm sure it's there, i'm just not seeing it.
It appeared from his description that the intruder saw the gun?