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I took my CHL class today and I could not believe how many people had issues with properly firing their guns during the shooting portion, not to mention safety issues. The shooting qualification would have been about 30 minutes shorter if the participants did not have so many problems. It got me wondering if a safety course like the hunter safety course should be a requirement for your CHL. What say you?

No.

The CHL instructor or range master can terminate the shooting qualification for unsafe handling or failure to follow instructions.

The embarrassment should be enough to get the flunky to take some private instruction. If not, they can take their chances without a CHL.

The flip side of this issue is that if the legislature requires some level of mandatory training, a future legislature can increase it to the point where few people can achieve it.

- Jim

nedmoore wrote:The flip side of this issue is that if the legislature requires some level of mandatory training, a future legislature can increase it to the point where few people can achieve it.

I thought about that, it is just frustrating when you witness such things. This class had 38 attendees is that a large class?

seamusTX wrote:No.

The CHL instructor or range master can terminate the shooting qualification for unsafe handling or failure to follow instructions.

The embarrassment should be enough to get the flunky to take some private instruction. If not, they can take their chances without a CHL.

The flip side of this issue is that if the legislature requires some level of mandatory training, a future legislature can increase it to the point where few people can achieve it.

- Jim

People *should* take the time to make sure they're adequately trained and experienced before getting their CHLs and carrying concealed. We *shouldn't* require or allow the government to mandate it, however. Of course my opinion is that we shouldn't need licenses to carry at all, concealed or otherwise.

nedmoore wrote:This class had 38 attendees is that a large class?

I can only speak to my own experience here...My class has about fifty students in it, but we did the shooting portion four to an instructor.

nedmoore wrote:This class had 38 attendees is that a large class?

I think so. In my corner of this great state, it's 5 to 15.

P.S.: Look at the great results of mandatory driver education.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:P.S.: Look at the great results of mandatory driver education.

Ain't that the truth.

seamusTX wrote:No.

The CHL instructor or range master can terminate the shooting qualification for unsafe handling or failure to follow instructions.

When I took my class in September, the instructor said they were no longer allowed to "help" students during the range qualification. I don't know the specific details, or even if it was true, but it sounded like a reasonable policy to me. Gun handling is important and it's part of the combat triad. Functional equipment is also important. If the gun breaks, you can reshoot the range portion later. That's already far more forgiving than the street.

Safety is also important, and I have no problem with an instructor who DQs a student for pointing a firearm at another student. To the contrary, were I the student on the muzzle end, I would be upset if the RO didn't DQ them and I'd make sure the internet knew it.

If someone needs remedial instruction, it's available from a number of instructors. However, I don't see any benefit in mandatory prereqs. Many people in my class scored better than 95% on the range.

I just wish that you guys could have seen what I did......

nedmoore wrote:I just wish that you guys could have seen what I did......

Just post the ER bill and we'll try to guess.

cbr600 wrote:the instructor said they were no longer allowed to "help" students during the range qualification.

I took mine last October and other than pulling the trigger, the instructors did everything. The magazines were all pre-loaded, they placed the magazines in their supplied Glocks and charged them between rounds, and they would have cleared jams (I was in the second round of shooters and never did see a FTF/FTE) if they happened.

I didn't witness any unsafe acts but there were a few folks there who had never fired a handgun before.

I'd be curious what the State requires.

Tom

cbr600 wrote:

the instructor said they were no longer allowed to "help" students during the range qualification.

I certainly hope this is incorrect.

Yesterday, I attended a class where my older brother was doing his renewal. This particular class had more than the normal amount of novices, so it was particularly challenging for the instructor.

If both the instructor and I were not allowed (in any way) to help/assist some of the shooters, then it would have been most unfortunate for some of the folks there.

I.E., One gentleman there was 79 yrs. old, had suffered a mild stroke about 6 months earlier and had trouble filling out his paperwork and loading his mag. because of shaking hands. I did all of his paperwork (except signatures) and loaded his mags. for him on the firing line. Seems reasonable to me.

Another gentleman, (right beside the older man on the line) was having trouble loading his mags. as well, only because he was recovering from a broken thumb. I offered to help him...and he readily accepted.

A lady (new to shooting) was assisted by her husband in loading her mags. (just to speed things up). She shot VERY well BTW.

There were several "stoppages" during the course of the test, this instructor wisely requires that you wait for HIM to come and clear it, whether or not you know how. I agree with this. So...again, assistance is needed.

One person showed up with a brand spanking new Bryco that appeared to be "bone dry" to me.

Even before the shooting part of the class began, the instructor offered his own personal pistol to the man to use for the test.

The man declined...and we were all treated to no less than 40+ stoppages. Of course, this required the attention of the instructor at nearly every shot.

Normally, this instructor would have removed the person from the firing line and had him re-shoot after the class had finished (probably with another weapon).

Instead...he allowed this guy to experience a very valuable lesson (for himself and others). Don't buy a cheap piece of junk...to protect yourself with, often times men do this...when purchasing a weapon for their significant other's. Terrible mistake.

For the most part, the Bryco this fella had was a "single shot", not by design of course, but simply because it wouldn't function.

While it is preferable to have folks show up with a reliable weapon, a remedial understanding of how it works and some practical experience firing it, I can assure you...that will NEVER be the case in most classes.

A little "help" is often times needed and greatly appreciated by those who may not have had the opportunities we have enjoyed to learn about firearms.

Just my .02 on it.

THERE IS NO LAW OR RULE THAT INSTRUCTORS CAN NO LONGER HELP SHOOTERS.

May be I'm a harsh instructor but, I tell folks before even going to the range that if they aren't familiar with their firearm, basic administrative handling and haven't mastered basic marksmanship, they are welcome to handle the proficiency demonstration with me at a later date. Students get their warnings on safety infractions before we get to the range. After that, there are no warnings as far as I'm concerned. Failure to follow instruction or any unsafe act immediately terminates your test and you will have to schedule time to repeat the proficiency demonstration later. Sgt Adams at DPS made a similar statement but failed to follow through with it when I went to the DPS Instructor Renewal in December. I really wished he'd followed through because at least two guys near me didn't need to be there.

nedmoore wrote:I took my CHL class today and I could not believe how many people had issues with properly firing their guns during the shooting portion, not to mention safety issues. The shooting qualification would have been about 30 minutes shorter if the participants did not have so many problems. It got me wondering if a safety course like the hunter safety course should be a requirement for your CHL. What say you?

I visited a thought similar to this several months ago...

Chas and a few others chimed in saying that they would not back anything that would make it more difficult to obtain a license, including pre-reqs. I can fully see their point as you never know who may continue to increase the requirements making it virtually impossible for many folks.

The only thing you can do is hope that the instructors dismiss for safety violations and that the students continue visiting the range to further improve their shooting.

Oh and if I am not mistaken, the CHL class curriculum (sp?) includes an overview of firearm safety. If not, I would certainly hope that instructors are going over it more than touching on it. As far as I am concerned, there is nothing wrong with spending a little more time on safety during the classroom portion.

txinvestigator wrote:THERE IS NO LAW OR RULE THAT INSTRUCTORS CAN NO LONGER HELP SHOOTERS.

Excellent.