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Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:24 pm
by LedJedi
Just wondering if anyone has any input on this.
The design of the new Taurus Copper Bullet features the Taurus HEX Bullet whose six nose petals have an upset threshold beginning at 650. The certified 99.95% pure copper, non-fouling bullet material, provides full expansion with nearly 100% weight retention for maximum effectiveness at all handgun velocities.
Symbol: TCB45ACP185HP
Cartridge: .45 ACP
Bullet Weight: 185 Grain
Bullet Description: Solid Copper Hollow Point (SCHP)
Hollow Point Design: Notched for low velocity expansion
Shellcase: Nickel Plated Brass
Propellant: Smokeless custom blend - flash suppressed
Primer: Standard Leaded (Non-Corrosive) Boxer Design
Muzzle Velocity: 995 ft/sec.
Muzzle Energy: 406 ft-lb.
Chamber Pressure: Per standard SAAMI Specifications
Expansion: 100%
Weight Retention: 100%
Compact Handgun Performance: Excellent low velocity expansion
Standard Length Handgun Performance: Exceptional expansion with no petal loss
Accuracy: Exceptional
Penetration: 10 ½� to 11 ½" in Barriered 10% Ordnance Gelatin (4-layer denim)
Rounds per Box: 20
Boxes Per Case: 25
MSRP: $19.95/box
UPC Code: 7-25327-93501-8
http://www.taurususa.com/products/products-ammo.cfm
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:29 pm
by Liko81
Copper's ductile and flexible, and would fragment less than lead; however it is not as flexible as lead, so the increased cavity hollow point is necessary (the very thing current JHP designs are moving away from as it increases chances of failure to expand). I dunno, I think I'll keep my HydraShoks. I've seen what they do and I trust them to do it.
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:45 pm
by jbirds1210
Other than something to call their own, I don't really see the point. Lead is pretty effective.
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:46 pm
by Kalrog
Isn't the CorBon DPX having great results with a solid copper bullet?
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:49 pm
by LedJedi
Kalrog wrote:Isn't the CorBon DPX having great results with a solid copper bullet?
speaking of corbon, does anyone have a link to a trial/results/comparison to corbon's stuff? several folks have pointed me in that direction lately, even over hydrashock.
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:05 pm
by stroo
Google Evan Marshall and go to his website. On the Stopping Power forum there, they have a bunch of stuff on gelatin tests of a bunch of rounds including DPX. They love DPX on that site.
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:29 pm
by WildBill
jbirds1210 wrote:Other than something to call their own, I don't really see the point. Lead is pretty effective.
Just because it's different doesn't make it necessarily better, but also doesn't make it worse. Companies are constantly trying to come out with new products and this is one of them. If they came out with just another lead hollow point, people would say "so what." As jbirds said, it's something to call their own.
Barnes has been making copper bullets for rifles for some time.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/ That is their niche market, but most people still use lead bullets for hunting.
Lead is used for bullets because of it's high density, ease of forming [low melting point and soft], availability and well as price. Even if the expansion is the same, the main problem is that copper is less dense than lead so, for the same size bullet, it is going to be lighter. Given that fact, I don't envision going to a copper bullet. JMO
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:32 pm
by CodeJockey
WildBill wrote:...Even if the expansion is the same, the main problem is that copper is less dense than lead so, for the same size bullet, it is going to be lighter. Given that fact, I don't envision going to a copper bullet. JMO
I use the Corbon DPX because it was the same weight as the equivalent Federal Hydrashok JHP. I would tend to agree with you as far as the lead bullet weighing more, so I'm not sure where they made up the weight difference, especially given the super deep cavity of the DPX. I made my choice based on some of the ballistic gel tests I've seen on the DPX versus other types. IMO, the bottom line is that it really comes down to shot placement more than anything.
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:47 pm
by Xander
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:49 pm
by WildBill
CodeJockey wrote:I would tend to agree with you as far as the lead bullet weighing more, so I'm not sure where they made up the weight difference, especially given the super deep cavity of the DPX.
I think that the bullet must be longer and seated deeper in the casing to maintain the OAL. The pictures of the bullets that LedJedi posted look longer that a lead bullet to me.
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:03 pm
by LedJedi
WildBill wrote:CodeJockey wrote:I would tend to agree with you as far as the lead bullet weighing more, so I'm not sure where they made up the weight difference, especially given the super deep cavity of the DPX.
I think that the bullet must be longer and seated deeper in the casing to maintain the OAL. The pictures of the bullets that LedJedi posted look longer that a lead bullet to me.
I agree. they do look longer.
This is what I get out of the concept, but keep in mind I really know very little about ballistics.
It appears that because copper is harder than it appears that the main (supposed) benifit here is that the bullet mushrooms without actually fragmenting so it stays as a solid mass. I'm not sure if that would really cause more or less damage though.
It does appear that the bullet itself is larger to compensate for the lighter weight of the copper.
While reliability of modem pistols is greatly improved over older guns, we need to be sure our gun works with the chosen ammo. The Hex bullet has to be a bit longer than a customary lead core bullet because of the lighter weight of copper. Many conventional 185 gr. hollowpoints are about 0.5 long. This is the limiting factor in the shape of the bullet's nose, but since copper is lighter, the bullet has to be longer--about .725"--allowing the nose to have a longer, more gradual taper. At least in theory, this shape will feed very easily. Each of the guns shown in the table was fired 15 to 20 times with the Taurus ammo. There were no malfunctions.
~
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... 89874/pg_2
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:13 pm
by WildBill
At $20/box they are competitive with the other "high end" defensive ammo. As I recall most of them are around $1.00 each. It is the high ductility of the copper rather than the hardness that allows it to expand without fragmenting. Yes, along with the nickel-plated case, they are shiny.
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:20 pm
by CodeJockey
LedJedi wrote:...with the prices of copper these days i'm honestly surprised these aren't more expensive than $20/box
I wish i could find them for $20.00 / box. I bought a box of 9mm DPX for 28.00 / box of 20 this week.
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:06 pm
by ELB
John Farnam writes a lot on Corbon DPX, and puts in all his guns, long or short. From his writings on the testing he has done/observed, including hunting with it, and what I have seen on Marshall's website and couple other places, one major DPX advantage over other (lead/copper) hollow points seems to be reliable expansion AFTER penetrating various barriers, including clothing and windshield glass. Never heard of Taurus's copper bullets until I read this thread, but would be interested to see if it is similar.
elb
Re: Solid Copper HP
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:24 pm
by KD5NRH
WildBill wrote:Barnes has been making copper bullets for rifles for some time.
http://www.barnesbullets.com/ That is their niche market, but most people still use lead bullets for hunting.
Depends on the hunting; those bullets are impressively destructive, and therefore wouldn't be my first choice on something I intend to eat unless I'm willing to sacrifice a few pounds of meat. For stray dogs and coyotes OTOH, they ought to be just fine.