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Interesting story about shooting in"defense of third person" in today's news.

http://www.lubbockonline.com/stories/12 ... 5069.shtml

WICHITA, Kan. (AP) - A woman who died after a car crash had been shot in the heart minutes earlier with a pellet gun that her 14-year-old son received as a Christmas gift, police said.

Police said the teen was protecting his grandfather from his mother, Elizabeth White. She was threatening the grandfather with a pair of scissors, according to authorities.

The death was ruled a justifiable homicide, said Capt. Randy Landen of the Wichita Police Department.

White, 40, of Salina, had spent the weekend in Wichita after she was invited to spend Christmas at the house where her 73-year-old father and her 68-year-old mother were raising her children.

Police said the altercation happened after White returned to the home Tuesday. Armed with scissors, White threatened to kill her father, who had only a cane to defend himself, police said.

When the argument moved into the front yard, Landen said the teen's grandfather tripped over a planter.

As his mother moved toward her fallen dad with the scissors, police said, the teenager stepped onto the front porch and aimed, striking his mother in the heart.

After throwing the scissors at her son, White took off in a car, police said. Authorities think the wound caused her to lose control of her car. She died at a hospital after undergoing emergency surgery after the crash.

White, who has been in and out of prison during the past 16 years, has convictions for drug offenses, prostitution, writing bad checks and making threats, according to state records.

White, who has been in and out of prison during the past 16 years, has convictions for drug offenses, prostitution, writing bad checks and making threats, according to state records.

Says it all right there. Too bad her kid will have to live with knowing he killed his own mother. BUT, it sounds like he did what he had too.

wrt45 wrote:WICHITA, Kan. (AP) - A woman who died after a car crash had been shot in the heart minutes earlier with a pellet gun that her 14-year-old son received as a Christmas gift, police said.

Not the caliber, but the shot placement.

I bet the BB shot did not cause the death.

txinvestigator wrote:I bet the BB shot did not cause the death.

Okay, just poke a 0.177" hole in your heart and see how long you last.

Kevin

KBCraig wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:I bet the BB shot did not cause the death.

Okay, just poke a 0.177" hole in your heart and see how long you last.

Kevin

We don't know that the pellet/BB made it to her heart. We only know she was hit in the chest. For all we know she died of injuries from the wreck.

HighVelocity wrote:

KBCraig wrote:

txinvestigator wrote:I bet the BB shot did not cause the death.

Okay, just poke a 0.177" hole in your heart and see how long you last.

Kevin

We don't know that the pellet/BB made it to her heart. We only know she was hit in the chest. For all we know she died of injuries from the wreck.

I doubt a BB, unless at VERY close range (like a contact shot) would penetrate the sternum

A college classmate of mine's mother died when she fell and a sewing needle that she had "stored" in the button band of her sweater pierced her chest and heart.

Although it is not highly likely that a pellet from a pellet rifle (which is what it is described as in the article, not a BB gun, and it could be any of several calibers and power levels) could penetrate to the heart, it is not impossible.

wrt45 wrote: A woman who died after a car crash had been shot in the heart minutes earlier with a pellet gun that her 14-year-old son received as a Christmas gift, police said.

I was just going by the article. I am dead sure not a pathalogist, but I would say anything is possible. Just like the whale who swallowed Jonah.

carlson1 wrote:

wrt45 wrote: A woman who died after a car crash had been shot in the heart minutes earlier with a pellet gun that her 14-year-old son received as a Christmas gift, police said.

I was just going by the article. I am dead sure not a pathalogist, but I would say anything is possible. Just like the whale who swallowed Jonah.

Added an appropriate bold phrase

txinvestigator wrote:

carlson1 wrote:

wrt45 wrote: A woman who died after a car crash had been shot in the heart minutes earlier with a pellet gun that her 14-year-old son received as a Christmas gift, police said.

I was just going by the article. I am dead sure not a pathalogist, but I would say anything is possible. Just like the whale who swallowed Jonah.

Added an appropriate bold phrase

"Authorities think the wound caused her to lose control of her car. She died at a hospital after undergoing emergency surgery after the crash."

Added another appropriate bold phrase.

Someone doubted a pellet penetrating the sternum... that's not at all necessary to reach the heart.

But even if the sternum surrounded the heart, I've got a pellet rifle that will easily penetrate 1/2" CDX plywood, and it's far from the high end when it comes to pellet rifle power. There are pellet rifles in .177, 5mm (.20) and .22 that approach .22 rimfire energy. There are large-caliber air rifles that are at .38 Special levels, perhaps even higher.

Kevin

I believe you have all missed the actual cause of death, as stated
here:

"She died at a hospital after undergoing emergency surgery after the crash."

It was the emergency surgery that killed her.

Just trying to move this discussion along.
You are welcome.

Kind Regards,

Tom

Tom wrote:
It was the emergency surgery that killed her.

Tom

That would be my conclusion.



Chas, can we get a separate section for the debates about whose bible is the correct one?

I moved the Bible translation discussion to another thread and locked it. This one will remain open.

Chas.