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I am sorry if this has been posted before. I have not seen it. I borrowed this from another site. I do know I would not turn my back on 4 people jaw jacking with me.





Would this be considered a life threatening situation? Because when I got up I'm not sure if I could have controlled myself

video here...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=42d_1203516604


Beef over aisle space in corner Deli ends with brutal KO punch
A shocking scene was recently caught on video, a tape police hope will lead to a quick arrest.
The tape shoes a guy just trying to pay up at a corner deli when out of nowhere he is laid out with a haymaker that conjures memories of a young Mike Tyson.

The customer's worst nightmare unfolded innocently enough as he was standing at the counter paying for some items just after midnight on Jan. 6.
The white man dressed in a white coat then gets walloped by a black man in a dark vest and grey hoody, but thanks to the deli's security cameras police have a pretty clear picture of the assailant because the entire sordid affair was captured from several angles.

The victim may have known he was in danger but had no idea the punch was coming. He appears to be jawing with a group of men who circle him by the counter.
The pain comes shortly after as the assailant launches a fierce haymaker that knocks the victim clear out of the camera's view.

The victim takes the brunt of the blow to the head and neck and goes sprawling to the floor. The assailant leaves but some in his posse go over to the prone victim and take his money.

It turns out the entire episode started over a beef over aisle space.

The aisle where the original dispute started is very narrow, with maybe room for one person.

The victim was taken to a nearby hospital, treated and released. In the meantime, police say thanks to the multitude of surveillance cameras and angles in the deli they are very confident they will be able to find who they are looking for because someone out there has to recognize the assailant.

Yes, being punched in the head and knocked to the ground is a life-threatening situation. Note that it was also a robbery.

- Jim

Good grief! That was a rough hit, and a dirty cheap shot! Yeah, I'd call that life threatening. I've worked in the ER for years as a nurse, and have seen alot of head blows end very badly.

In this case I don’t think you would be justified in drawing your weapon and shooting the guy. You clearly have him for assault, but he’s walking away and no longer represents the level of threat required to justify deadly force on your part.

You state you were not sure you would be able to control yourself once you got off the floor. I think you would be taking considerable risk if you followed the guy out of the store, drew your weapon, and then shot him…

Now if when you started to get up off the floor the guy turned around and advanced on you, that’s a different story. But as long as he’s moving away, I think you would be on slippery ground to shoot him.

Ok, let the flaming begin

If you were a bystander and witnessed the guys robbing him, after her got KO'ed sucker punched?

How would that be handled?

I THINK, I'd just be a good witness and immediately dial 911 right then and do my best to provide a good description. If the assaulter noticed what I was doing, and advanced on me, I think I'd have to draw my weapon at that time and fire if needed, especially after seeing what he just did to someone else. BUT, I wasn't there, so I couldn't say for sure. Just a guess from secondary observation.

Molon_labe wrote:If you were a bystander and witnessed the guys robbing him, after her got KO'ed sucker punched?

How would that be handled?

If I were just a bystander, then no. If it were a close relative (Mars, a parental unit, etc.), then I would likely draw to prevent further damage.

Remember, we aren't trained to get into people's business. For all we know, that little spiff could have begun long before we or they arrived in the store. It usually happens before you have time to think it out and respond.

It does highlight the fact that you shouldn't turn your back to someone that is a threat to you.

Molon_labe wrote:If you were a bystander and witnessed the guys robbing him, after her got KO'ed sucker punched?

How would that be handled?

Since it would be an active robbery, I believe it would be legal in intervene. Now whether you should or not is an individual decision…in my case, I would probably try to stop the robbery.

The first thing I would do is simply say “stop� while at the same time dialing 911 and making sure they knew I was making the call. Often, that alone will accomplish the task. Pointing out all the cameras could help too...

If at that time they decided to leave the area, that’s fine by me. If they advance on me I may draw my weapon depending on what level of threat I felt I was facing. If they kept robbing the guy, I would advance a step and see if that changed the situation (either them leaving or deciding to advance on me).

If they ignored that, I may bring my weapon out of its holster…

If at anytime they choose to stop robbing the guy and leave, that’s fine with me. If they choose to advance on me, then the level of perceived threat will decide my actions. If I can retreat, I will. Shooting them is my last option. After all, my intent was only to stop the robbery, not shoot the BG’s.

[quote="TX Rancher"].

You state you were not sure you would be able to control yourself once you got off the floor. I think you would be taking considerable risk if you followed the guy out of the store, drew your weapon, and then shot him[quote]

Actuallt that was part of the thread I borrowed....I cannot imagine turning your back on the BG's. I would have backed off, but I would have payed attention to the threat.... he ignored it

bps3040 wrote:

TX Rancher wrote:.

You state you were not sure you would be able to control yourself once you got off the floor. I think you would be taking considerable risk if you followed the guy out of the store, drew your weapon, and then shot him

Actuallt that was part of the thread I borrowed....I cannot imagine turning your back on the BG's. I would have backed off, but I would have payed attention to the threat.... he ignored it

BAAAAAAAAA!!!BAAAAAAA!!!!!

That's what we as a society are trained to do. I would have drawn whether he hit me of if I witnessed it.

I just had a thought. In Texas, the use of deadly force is justified on someone elses behalf if they themselves would have been justified, right? Would it be reasonable to assume that if he had been armed, and not unconscious, that he could have legally responded with deadly force? (In Texas, anyway.) Therefore, would it be reasonable to assume that on his behalf, you would then be justified to respond with deadly force FOR him? On the flip side, since the agressor was walking away, it could also be argued that the need for deadly force was no longer there. Just a pondering. So many variables.......

Tactical_Texan_CHL wrote: On the flip side, since the agressor was walking away, it could also be argued that the need for deadly force was no longer there. Just a pondering. So many variables.......

What if the punk had shot the guy in the arm once, then dropped the gun and walked away?

flb_78 wrote:

Tactical_Texan_CHL wrote: On the flip side, since the agressor was walking away, it could also be argued that the need for deadly force was no longer there. Just a pondering. So many variables.......

What if the punk had shot the guy in the arm once, then dropped the gun and walked away?

Then he's no longer a threat. However, if he shot the guy once, and is still holding the gun, I'm inclined to believe that he's a threat to me (since I'm within easy target range), and I would act accordingly.

If this person had been a CHL....he likely would have lost his weapon along with his wallet.

NEVER turn your back on a threat and "ignore" them. Today's punks consider that being "dissed" and you will "seal the deal" for being assaulted.

Keep your eye on everyone you can...and do not allow yourself to be circled or flanked.

This guy was begging to be sucker punched....and was not disappointed.

Venus, I'm inclined to agree with you to the letter. Flint, I agree with you too. I think the victim's situational awareness was nil. Flb, in my opinion (which is worth about as much as toilet paper to some, and could be used for the same thing to others), if he dropped the gun, he wouldn't have been an immediate threat. I would never have turned my back to them. But, in all honesty, I can't say for sure what I would or would not do in a similar situation. I'd just have to be there at that time and hope I made the right choices.