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I just got a puppy and i was wondering what the laws are about using force, defending, my dog against stupid people and/or other dogs. Also how about defending myself against a dog. If a dog is attacking me or my dog can i use my gun (CHL holder) to defuse the situation?? Any ideas??? thanks

rdtnns wrote:If a dog is attacking me or my dog can i use my gun (CHL holder) to defuse the situation?? Any ideas??? thanks

Are you assuming that the attacking dog can be reasoned with?

Sorry, I couldn't help myself. My answer would be that, if you are in fear of losing your life or sustaining great injury, you can shoot the attacking dog. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know if you can claim the same defense if you are shooting to protect your own dog as you can if the attacking dog were mauling your wife or child.

This was discussed extensively: http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=14743

Bottom line: carry a stick and pepper spray when walking your dog. Shooting is messy and generates lots of paperwork.

- Jim

maybe you'll get lucky and it will be a dog with an owner who shoots. My dogs are field trained, and a 12 ga. shotgun doesn't bother them, but i guess my pistols hurt their ears, cause i can shoot at birds all day long no problem, but if draw a handgun, and start target shooting they run for the hills.

This reminds me of a potential incident I was party to. Years ago, my family and I would make frequent trips to Big Spring to visit my in-laws. I was packing up the wife's minivan, when this clown in a feed store "gimme" cap was walking down the sidewalk in front of our house with a Rottweiler OFF OF ITS LEASH!!!

The dog saw me, stopped in its tracks, and started growling and barking at me. The ID10T grinned and said, "Whacha got there, boy?" Then he looked at me and said, "Aww, he's just kidding." I didn't say anything. I also failed to tell him that just before they crossed in front of my house, I had just placed my Winchester 1300 Defender shotgun in the minivan. If they had arrived a few seconds sooner, they would have seen me placing it in the vehicle.

I didn't feel as scared as I probably should have, but the dog was at least 100 feet from me. I'm sure it would have been dead before it got to me. Fortunately, they just went on their way. When I think back, I should have reported him to police, since our town has a leash law.

I won't fail to do that next time.

Don't get me wrong. I think Rottweilers are cool dogs. My wife has some cousins in Houston who had one. He was wonderful. He loved getting attention and was always gentle. But any large dog who takes an unprovoked stance to me is not going to be greeted in a friendly fashion.

pedalman wrote:Don't get me wrong. I think Rottweilers are cool dogs. My wife has some cousins in Houston who had one. He was wonderful. He loved getting attention and was always gentle. But any large dog who takes an unprovoked stance to me is not going to be greeted in a friendly fashion.

That paragraph is the key. Some people enjoy the power trip that a big, mean dog provides; therefore, they train their dogs to be overly agressive. I have a real problem with these types of people, and I believe that they should be held fully responsible for what their agressive animal does.

rdtnns wrote:I just got a puppy and i was wondering what the laws are about using force, defending, my dog against stupid people and/or other dogs.

We've discussed this before and--don't take my word for it because I Am Not a Lawyer--the consensus was that Texas, like most states, views most animals, including "companion animals" (pets) as chattel...property. There is a distinction between livestock and non-livestock animals; and the biggest distinction is with "assistance animals" (like seeing-eye dogs).

A handy read-through would be section 42 of the Penal Code. Another is the Health & Safety Code, Title 10.

A couple of Texas cases have been cited in support of the animals-as-chattel interpretation. One is Bueckner v. Hamel, 886 S.W.2d 368, 370 (Tex. App.-Houston [1st Dist.] 1994, writ denied). Another is Arrington v. Arrington, 613 S.W.2d 565, 569 (Tex.Civ.App.--Fort Worth 1981, no writ).

Section 822.013 of the Health & Safety Code pretty much says that a dog (or coyote) that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by the attacked animal's owner, or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack. A person who kills a dog as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog.

One of the bills approved in the 2007 Texas Legislative Session will probably toughen interpretations against owners of violent dogs. H.B. 1355, "Lillian's Law"--named for Lillian Stiles, a 76-year-old woman killed in her front yard by a neighbor's pit bulls--makes serious bodily injury or death caused by a dog in an unprovoked attack outside the dog's normal place of confinement a third-degree or second-degree felony, respectively.

In a nutshell, there are specific statutes that address attacks by dogs against you or your dog. But if it's a human attacking or tormenting your dog, be prepared for the courts to view your animal as personal property only (unless he's a seeing-eye dog), not a family member. Using deadly force against a person harming your dog may well be scrutinized just as if you were to use deadly force to protect your lawn furniture. There are some conditions under which you have a defense to prosecution in doing so, and many more conditions under which you don't.

rdtnns wrote:I just got a puppy and i was wondering what the laws are about using force, defending, my dog against stupid people and/or other dogs. Also how about defending myself against a dog. If a dog is attacking me or my dog can i use my gun (CHL holder) to defuse the situation?? Any ideas??? thanks

HEALTH & SAFETY CODE § 822.005. ATTACK BY DOG.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person is the owner of a dog and the person:
(1) with criminal negligence, as defined by Section 6.03, Penal Code, fails to secure the dog and the dog makes an unprovoked attack on another person that occurs at a location other than the owner's real property or in or on the owner's motor vehicle or boat and that causes serious bodily injury, as defined by Section 1.07, Penal Code, or death to the other person;
(b) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree unless the attack causes death, in which event the offense is a felony of the second degree.


HEALTH & SAFETY CODE § 822.013. DOGS OR COYOTES THAT ATTACK ANIMALS.
(a) A dog or coyote that is attacking, is about to attack, or has recently attacked livestock, domestic animals, or fowls may be killed by:
(1) any person witnessing the attack; or
(2) the attacked animal's owner or a person acting on behalf of the owner if the owner or person has knowledge of the attack.
(b) A person who kills a dog or coyote as provided by this section is not liable for damages to the owner, keeper, or person in control of the dog or coyote.

Your puppy is a domestic animal.

I dreamed this last night...

Hypothetically....
We moved in a new house last week, yesterday we saw my neighbors very mean german shepherd go after two kids across the street who were playing by themselves. One of the kids got a large scratch so we told their parents to call the police (they told us this was the 3rd time this happened, unbelievable). Owner brought dog back inside so we were waiting for the police to come so we could be a witness. About 30 mins later the owner takes the dog out front again holding it by its collar. Dog breaks loose and goes right for my 3-year old who was playing in our front yard. I shot the dog and it died. Cops come and get my statement and witnesses (parents of first kid) and tell me it was a good shoot. Dog owner throws a fit and says they were gonna sue, etc... Now, in this hypothetical situation what legal recourse, if any at all could the dog's owner come up with? They are obviously nuts... Can I wash my hands of this or is there some frivolous claim they could take against me?

Thanks much

In Texas, they can only sue for the value of the dog. Even if it's a prize-winning show dog (which it would not be in this scenario), it's a few hundred dollars. They would have to front thousands to get a lawyer to file a suit. No lawyer would take it on contingency.

- Jim

could it be done in small claims court? Then they wouldnt need a lawyer...

Yes, but the judge would probably dismiss the case; and at worst you would be on the hook for a few hundred dollars.

- Jim