TexasCHLforum.com

Help! I've ran into a snag and not sure where to go next. 14 years ago, i was in Wyoming going to school at wyotech. I got a ride with a fellow texan to dallas and back to visit my family. On the way back, this fellow texan gets pulled over and we both go to jail in Oklahoma for his marijauna pipe. I didn't know him very well at all, but ended up having to take the rap with him regardless. We got deffered for the possesion charge and was exspunged from my record.

So fast forward to today. I call the sheriffs office to get a certified copy of the arrest report to send in with the chl packet. They say they don't have certified copies and sent me off to the county clerk. I get the same anwser from the clerk and she sends me off to another lady in the office. I sit on hold with her while she researches it. She tells me that i have to go back up there, set a court date to stand before the judge and ask him to reopen my file so they can release the info. I then ask if i go thru all of this, can i then get a certified copy of my arrest record. She says no and that they don't have a "certified" anything of any arrest records.

So my question basicly is, what do i do? My CHL instructor isn't helpful at all. He says i have to have every one certified and won't give any help or advice.

Thanks for reading my long winded situation and any help.

Tom E

I'm not an instructor, but I can tell you I had a similar situation when I sent in my paper work. I was unable to find anyone that could even confirm the charge and disposition. I just put down the information as I remembered it from 15 years prior and sent the forms in with no copies certified or otherwise. I had no trouble getting my CHL.

If you have an expunction, in some states, it's as if the incident never occurred. If the court was still using paper records, they may have been shredded. I was in that situation. I had to get a letter from the county clerk saying that there was no record of my arrest or conviction.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:If you have an expunction, in some states, it's as if the incident never occurred. If the court was still using paper records, they may have been shredded. I was in that situation. I had to get a letter from the county clerk saying that there was no record of my arrest or conviction.

- Jim

Agree here, personally I would leave it off.

I would not leave an arrest off the application. You sign an affidavit saying that the application is complete and correct. If DPS finds something that you forgot to mention, they can deny the application.

With court records being computerized, you never know if every trace of an arrest has been eradicated.

It should always be possible to deal with an old misdemeanor arrest with no conviction. Even if they guy had been convicted of misdemeanor marijuana possession 14 years ago, it would not disqualify him.

- Jim

If you got deferred adjudication and it was expunged, then it's not a "conviction" for purposes of applying for a Texas CHL. I've copied the statute below. Not disclosing the arrest could provide an independent reason for DPS to deny your CHL.

Chas.

Tex. Gov't Code §411.171 wrote:§ 411.171. DEFINITIONS. In this subchapter:
. . .
(4) "Convicted" means an adjudication of guilt or,
except as provided in Section 411.1711, an order of deferred
adjudication entered against a person by a court of competent
jurisdiction whether or not the imposition of the sentence is
subsequently probated and the person is discharged from community
supervision. The term does not include an adjudication of guilt or
an order of deferred adjudication that has been subsequently:
(A) expunged; or

Charles L. Cotton wrote:If you got deferred adjudication and it was expunged, then it's not a "conviction" for purposes of applying for a Texas CHL. I've copied the statute below. Not disclosing the arrest could provide an independent reason for DPS to deny your CHL. Chas.

If the state [of Oklahoma] expunged the arrest and conviction records why would he still have to list the arrest?

WildBill wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:If you got deferred adjudication and it was expunged, then it's not a "conviction" for purposes of applying for a Texas CHL. I've copied the statute below. Not disclosing the arrest could provide an independent reason for DPS to deny your CHL. Chas.

If the state [of Oklahoma] expunged the arrest and conviction records why would he still have to list the arrest?

DPS takes the position that you must disclose every arrest. This makes no sense, since a person who has had something expunged can state under oath, that they have never been convicted of a crime. This applies even if the person had been convicted, not just deferred adjudication. I'm not at all sure of this part, but I seem to remember that the person can even testify under oath that they have never been arrested.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:If you got deferred adjudication and it was expunged, then it's not a "conviction" for purposes of applying for a Texas CHL. I've copied the statute below. Not disclosing the arrest could provide an independent reason for DPS to deny your CHL. Chas.

If the state [of Oklahoma] expunged the arrest and conviction records why would he still have to list the arrest?

DPS takes the position that you must disclose every arrest. This makes no sense, since a person who has had something expunged can state under oath, that they have never been convicted of a crime. This applies even if the person had been convicted, not just deferred adjudication. I'm not at all sure of this part, but I seem to remember that the person can even testify under oath that they have never been arrested.

Chas.

The is from the Texas Criminal Code:

Art. 55.03. EFFECT OF EXPUNCTION. When the order of
expunction is final:
(1) the release, maintenance, dissemination, or use of
the expunged records and files for any purpose is prohibited;
(2) except as provided in Subdivision (3) of this
article, the person arrested may deny the occurrence of the arrest
and the existence of the expunction order; and
(3) the person arrested or any other person, when
questioned under oath in a criminal proceeding about an arrest for
which the records have been expunged, may state only that the matter
in question has been expunged.

WildBill wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:DPS takes the position that you must disclose every arrest. This makes no sense, since a person who has had something expunged can state under oath, that they have never been convicted of a crime. This applies even if the person had been convicted, not just deferred adjudication. I'm not at all sure of this part, but I seem to remember that the person can even testify under oath that they have never been arrested.

Chas.

The is from the Texas Criminal Code:

Art. 55.03. EFFECT OF EXPUNCTION. When the order of
expunction is final:
(1) the release, maintenance, dissemination, or use of
the expunged records and files for any purpose is prohibited;
(2) except as provided in Subdivision (3) of this
article, the person arrested may deny the occurrence of the arrest
and the existence of the expunction order; and
(3) the person arrested or any other person, when
questioned under oath in a criminal proceeding about an arrest for
which the records have been expunged, may state only that the matter
in question has been expunged.

It's heartwarming when an old man's memory is proven correct!

Thanks,
Chas.

I had a similar situation. I haven't received my CHL yet, so take it for what it's worth... I was arrested when I was 16 (12 yrs ago) and it was expunged. I went to county and city clerks and they had no record of it so I just "guessed" on the application. I just wrote what I could recall and made a note that no record could be found by the clerks. I also had the clerks print a "no records found" page for me.

Thanks guys! I went ahead with some advice and called the DPS line and they said to not even mention it. Since it was expunged, DPS cannot look at the arrest or the conviction at all and said not to worry about it. You guys are great and thanks for the help. This newbie will be sticking around for awhile.

If an expunged arrest did not show up on the federal background check for a gun purchase, will that also be the case with a concealed carry permit application? This was a very timely thread. Thanks everyone for their input.

TomE wrote:Thanks guys! I went ahead with some advice and called the DPS line and they said to not even mention it. Since it was expunged, DPS cannot look at the arrest or the conviction at all and said not to worry about it. You guys are great and thanks for the help. This newbie will be sticking around for awhile.

I had quite a different experience with my application...
My arrest ocurred in Arkansas in '95- over 10yrs prior to applying for the CHL... I was convicted (and later had it expunged as part of the plea).
When filling out my app for the CHL, I was upfront about the whole incident, but was denied anyway.

DPS claims that an expunction from Arkansas was not the same as a Texas expunction, as the charge would not have been eligible to be expunged here in Texas. I messed up by not getting an attorney involved to advocate for me at the appeal hearing.
I've submitted the paperwork to have it pardoned by the Governor, as that appears to be my last resort. (fingers crossed)

I had an arrest in 1991 that I noted on my application,and had it expunged,the arrest showed up when DPS ran a records check and I had to request a certified copy of the charges and disposition,since it was expunged I had to send a notarized request and a copy of my drivers license before they would send a copy