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I took some friends who are from out of town to the 6th Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza yesterday. On the door entering the plaza is a 30.06 sign with the required verbiage. However, the letters were not 1" in height, making it technically not a legal sign.

My question is, would you still carry here? I tend to go with the spirit of the law when possible and not look for technicalities, such as the lettering being 3/4" instead of 1".

On a side note, both the girls I was with are from the northeast - one from New Jersey and the other from the Bronx. When I went back to my car to put up my gun, one of the girls asked "Why do you carry a gun?" and the other replied with "You can carry a gun here. It's Texas!"

Oh, how I love this great State.

Sounds like the sign is unenforcible.

The Museum is housed on the sixth and seventh floors of the former Texas School Book Depository, known today as the Dallas County Administration Building. The address is 411 Elm at Houston streets, in the West End Historic District of downtown Dallas.

It's a government owned building and cannot be posted.

This is just what I found on the site.

flb_78 wrote:Sounds like the sign is unenforcible.

The Museum is housed on the sixth and seventh floors of the former Texas School Book Depository, known today as the Dallas County Administration Building. The address is 411 Elm at Houston streets, in the West End Historic District of downtown Dallas.

It's a government owned building and cannot be posted.

This is just what I found on the site.

I think that's just what the building is commonly known as. There's a sign above the desk where you buy tickets stating that it's currently owned by a private, not for profit company.

Oh, and to ease any confusion, I am still waiting on my Texas license, but my Utah license arrived in April, so I'm legal.

According to the Tax Appraisal District rolls, the building is owned by "Dallas, County of" and appraised at $5,524,130. There is a total of $120 worth of real property owned by the Historical Foundation at that location.

While not a lawyer or suggesting you test it, I would say the building is not legally posted.

I bet the museum is county owned but ran by a private entity.

Kythas wrote:...is a 30.06 sign with the required verbiage. However, the letters were not 1" in height, making it technically not a legal sign.

My question is, would you still carry here? I tend to go with the spirit of the law when possible and not look for technicalities, such as the lettering being 3/4" instead of 1".

It was not a 30.06 sign if it doesn't meet the requirements of 30.06 or if it is improperly posted.

Wording, spelling, quotes, size, color/contrast, English and Spanish, viewable, etc. If not a 30.06 sign it is not a 30.06 sign.

The spirit of 30.06 is that the SIGN MUST follow certain rules even to the spelling and placement of quotes. This is taught and tested in your CHL class.

Any sign that doesn't meet the law is not a sign intended to affect, nor having any effect, on a CHL holder.

Would I carry? Probably -- almost certainly -- or I would NOT ENTER except due to dire need.

I will NOT cross the threshold of a 30.06 posting unless there is no real alternative.


Visiting a museum or historical site would probably never qualify -- I don't go to gun shows which have such signs either.

HerbM wrote:

Kythas wrote:...is a 30.06 sign with the required verbiage. However, the letters were not 1" in height, making it technically not a legal sign.

My question is, would you still carry here? I tend to go with the spirit of the law when possible and not look for technicalities, such as the lettering being 3/4" instead of 1".

It was not a 30.06 sign if it doesn't meet the requirements of 30.06 or if it is improperly posted.

Wording, spelling, quotes, size, color/contrast, English and Spanish, viewable, etc. If not a 30.06 sign it is not a 30.06 sign.

The spirit of 30.06 is that the SIGN MUST follow certain rules even to the spelling and placement of quotes. This is taught and tested in your CHL class.

Any sign that doesn't meet the law is not a sign intended to affect, nor having any effect, on a CHL holder.

Would I carry? Probably -- almost certainly -- or I would NOT ENTER except due to dire need.

I will NOT cross the threshold of a 30.06 posting unless there is no real alternative.


Visiting a museum or historical site would probably never qualify -- I don't go to gun shows which have such signs either.

I agree. The law is written as such so there is no doubt. That does not mean a CHL holder will not be harassed.

It is my opinion that this is a "slick lawyer" ploy to bluff CHL holders. If it is ever questioned as for its legality, they just say it doesn't meet the requirements so it is not their problem. I personally would not enter any place if the lettering was not 1" and was instead 3/4" as a rule. So, what that sign should do, in my opinion, is lose the NFP organization money because CHL holders should not support any business or organization that posts any sign resembling the 30.06 unless they have no choice. That is how we win. Make that our "line in the sand" and write or call the business or organization and tell them so. That goes for the tyrants that post gun shows too. Unfortunately, many CHL holders won't do that. I understand why but that is the point. Doing the right thing means sacrifice most of the time. Nothing of any real value is ever free. That is my take on it.

shootthesheet wrote: I agree. The law is written as such so there is no doubt. That does not mean a CHL holder will not be harassed.

It is my opinion that this is a "slick lawyer" ploy to bluff CHL holders. If it is ever questioned as for its legality, they just say it doesn't meet the requirements so it is not their problem. I personally would not enter any place if the lettering was not 1" and was instead 3/4" as a rule. So, what that sign should do, in my opinion, is lose the NFP organization money because CHL holders should not support any business or organization that posts any sign resembling the 30.06 unless they have no choice. That is how we win. Make that our "line in the sand" and write or call the business or organization and tell them so. That goes for the tyrants that post gun shows too. Unfortunately, many CHL holders won't do that. I understand why but that is the point. Doing the right thing means sacrifice most of the time. Nothing of any real value is ever free. That is my take on it.

While I will cheerfully anything that is NOT a 30.06 by the letter of the law whenever it suits me, the fake/mock signs that resemble a 30.06 sign should be protested and resisted with the same vigor as a real one. I don't mind the "ghostbuster" or regular "no guns" signs -- they aren't trying to prohibit a CHL holder but likly just fooling the legal or HR department or their unsurance company.

I will NOT cross the threshold of a 30.06 posting unless there is no real alternative.


I consider crossing one of these as similar to being a willing member* of a union, benefiting from the negotiations, and then scabbing while your brothers stand out in the cold with no pay.

*I also don't believe anyone should be required to join a union to work.

And this goes double for gun shows -- I will not excuse them simple because it is convenient since they no better than any other business that this is an egregious restriction on the rights of free people.

howabout if it was your work place?

I have been at my company for almost 12 years. They have a legal 30.06 sign on the "public" entrances and in the employee handbook they say that any of a list of "common sense" safety and security violations are grounds for immediate termination, and then it lists things like theft or destruction of employer property, harassment or physical threats or assault against employees, and possession of a firearm of any kind.

I know there is another "would you quit" thread on this forum... I work for a company that is based in CA, and I presume they have these rules in CA and do not have any differences in TX regardless of the law. No I won't quit working for this company over this one issue. However it is a potential great inconvenience, and once my plastic arrives I will determine just how serious of an inconvenience it turns out to be.

I see a lot of people say they would, and very few admit they wouldn't I am grateful for our teachers who all work under an effective but invisible 30.06. I am one of the lucky ones who are allowed to conceal carry in my work place. I do on occassion have to enter a 30.06 posted location. I accept that there are ignorant and stupid people in this world. These folks sometimes make corporate policy. It doesn't bother me. I can accept that there is no fixing stupid.

Liberty wrote:I see a lot of people say they would, and very few admit they wouldn't I am grateful for our teachers who all work under an effective but invisible 30.06. I am one of the lucky ones who are allowed to conceal carry in my work place. I do on occassion have to enter a 30.06 posted location. I accept that there are ignorant and stupid people in this world. These folks sometimes make corporate policy. It doesn't bother me. I can accept that there is no fixing stupid.

Schools and 51% signs are different, even though I don't agree with those either. They are still mandated by law.

A 30.06 sign is a business CHOOSING to violate our rights and making their premises less safe.

I will not visit such businesses nor work for one unless that is my only viable choice. I can well understand the fellow that has 20 years on the railroad and there isn't really anything he can do about that -- no place to change jobs that would be better.

If my company posts one of those signs I would however be looking for a job -- and such companies don't get my MONEY.

They have a choice. As long as I have a choice then they will not benefit from me.

mr.72 wrote:once my plastic arrives I will determine just how serious of an inconvenience it turns out to be

Hope you're meaning you'll have to decide where to keep your gun while you're at work. Carrying on property could result in the loss of your job AND your license.

PC §30.06.
TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF LICENSE TO CARRY CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was forbidden and failed to depart.
(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.
(c) In this section:
(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).
(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).
(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

Like it or not, on ANY private property it's up to the owner to decide about carrying.

Until we get the laws changed in Austin...........

yes that's exactly what I meant; I'm not going to carry at work.

Same Topic, different Thread

you do what you want. letters on the sign looked legal to me. course, I didn't bring my ruler with me...
remember, your gun isn't your ONLY defensive tool.