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Misleading Gun "Report"

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:25 pm
by Pinkycatcher
ATLANTA - The Supreme Court's landmark ruling on gun ownership last week focused on citizens' ability to defend themselves from intruders in their homes. But research shows that surprisingly often, gun owners use the weapons on themselves.

Suicides accounted for 55 percent of the nation's nearly 31,000 firearm deaths in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There was nothing unique about that year — gun-related suicides have outnumbered firearm homicides and accidents for 20 of the last 25 years. In 2005, homicides accounted for 40 percent of gun deaths. Accidents accounted for 3 percent. The remaining 2 percent included legal killings, such as when police do the shooting, and cases that involve undetermined intent.

Guns in home increase likelihood of suicide
Public-health researchers have concluded that in homes where guns are present, the likelihood that someone in the home will die from suicide or homicide is much greater.

Studies have also shown that homes in which a suicide occurred were three to five times more likely to have a gun present than households that did not experience a suicide, even after accounting for other risk factors.

In a 5-4 decision, the high court on Thursday struck down a handgun ban enacted in the District of Columbia in 1976 and rejected requirements that firearms have trigger locks or be kept disassembled. The ruling left intact the district's licensing restrictions for gun owners.

One public-health study found that suicide and homicide rates in the district dropped after the ban was adopted. The district has allowed shotguns and rifles to be kept in homes if they are registered, kept unloaded and taken apart or equipped with trigger locks.

The American Public Health Association, the American Association of Suicidology and two other groups filed a legal brief supporting the district's ban. The brief challenged arguments that if a gun is not available, suicidal people will just kill themselves using other means.

More than 90 percent of suicide attempts using guns are successful, while the success rate for jumping from high places was 34 percent. The success rate for drug overdose was 2 percent, the brief said, citing studies.

"Other methods are not as lethal," said Jon Vernick, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore.

The high court's majority opinion made no mention of suicide. But in a dissenting opinion, Justice Stephen Breyer used the word 14 times in voicing concern about the impact of striking down the handgun ban.

"If a resident has a handgun in the home that he can use for self-defense, then he has a handgun in the home that he can use to commit suicide or engage in acts of domestic violence," Breyer wrote.

Researchers raise questions about findings
Researchers in other fields have raised questions about the public-health findings on guns.

Gary Kleck, a researcher at Florida State University's College of Criminology and Criminal Justice, estimates there are more than 1 million incidents each year in which firearms are used to prevent an actual or threatened criminal attack.

Public-health experts have said the telephone survey methodology Kleck used likely resulted in an overestimate.

Both sides agree there has been a significant decline in the last decade in public-health research into gun violence.

The CDC traditionally was a primary funder of research on guns and gun-related injuries, allocating more than $2.1 million a year to such projects in the mid-1990s.

But the agency cut back research on the subject after Congress in 1996 ordered that none of the CDC's appropriations be used to promote gun control.

Vernick said the Supreme Court decision underscores the need for further study into what will happen to suicide and homicide rates in the district when the handgun ban is lifted.

Today, the CDC budgets less than $900,000 for firearm-related projects, and most of it is spent to track statistics. The agency no longer funds gun-related policy analysis.
Kleck said 2.5 million, not 1 million, and it's only tracking deaths, what about the other times when the criminal is wounded...

Of course it's on msnbc, I saw it on my iphone, it was a medium size headline (on the msnbc iphone website there's 1 main story, 5 medium stories and about 10 small ones that are at the bottom) the Heller decision was in the middle of the small stories at the bottom of the page, on the day that the case was decided!

Re: Misleading Gun "Report"

Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:34 pm
by HerbM
2.5 DGUs each year in America is the most defensible number -- anyone who uses less without giving the range is either ignorant of the studies or being dishonest. The numbers from the later studies tend to be LARGER as the methodologies were adjusted to cure supposed weaknesses criticized by gun control advocates so 4.7 Million may well be the most accurate.

Defensive Gun Uses (DGUs) by Survey
DoJ'94 4,700,000 (or 23 Million)
Kleck'93 2,000,000
Bordua 1,414,544
DMIa 2,141,512
DMIb 1,098,409
Field 3,052,717
Gallup 777,153
Gallup 1,621,377
Hart 1,797,461
LATimes 3,609,682
Mauser 1,487,342
Ohio 771,043
Tarrance 764,036
Lott 2,500,000
http://www.guncite.com/kleckandgertztable1.html
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html
http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/165476.pdf

If anyone uses the numbers 100,000 or less those studies were not even designed to study this issue and didn't contain a question specifically designed to elicit the response -- they should be counter with the 23,000,000 number reached by some seriously anti-gun researchers before the "adjusted" their data. No one seriously believes the 23 Million number but it is as valid as 100K.

Re: Misleading Gun "Report"

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:01 pm
by Mr.Scott
I just want to chime in on the 90% of suicides are effective with a gun. All I can say about that is Good. It's less strain on our health care system to care for those that are not committed enough to kill themselves. When Jr. slashes his wrists and goes to Parkland, I'm footing the bill for that. I'd prefer he just canoed his melon and went to the morgue and helped me lower my taxes. IF he/she doesn't want to live, that is their choice. I am all for individuals choices as long as it does not hurt others.

Re: Misleading Gun "Report"

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:19 pm
by dukesean
Let's look at some of the numbers.

32,637 suicides in 2005
17,002 suicides by firearms
90% success rate of suicides by firearms = 18,891 attempted suicides by firearms
Compared with an estimated 816,000 total attempted suicides (based upon estimates by the American Association of Suicidology), firearms consist of 2.3% of suicide attempts.

Draw your own conclusions.

Re: Misleading Gun "Report"

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:23 pm
by WarHawk-AVG
hit em with gunfacts.info

Re: Misleading Gun "Report"

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:36 pm
by Chemist45
Guns in home increase likelihood of suicide
If true, then please explain why Japan (Where guns are essentially illegal) has double the suicide rate of the US.

Re: Misleading Gun "Report"

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:38 pm
by dukesean
Chemist45 wrote:
Guns in home increase likelihood of suicide
If true, then please explain why Japan (Where guns are essentially illegal) has double the suicide rate of the US.
You really can't compare across cultures, which is why you can't similarly compare Japan's relatively low violent crime rate with the US's. There's a lot of stress associated with working in Japan (I know, I work for a huge Japanese company), with a lot of societal pressures. Add that with a history of glorified ritualistic suicide (harikiri) and there you go, a high suicide rate.

Of course, the conclusion drawn by the "report" is totally irresponsible, but just making a point that different cultures have different values, including their views on violence/suicide/etc.

Re: Misleading Gun "Report"

Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:46 pm
by Pinkycatcher
dukesean wrote:
Chemist45 wrote:
Guns in home increase likelihood of suicide
If true, then please explain why Japan (Where guns are essentially illegal) has double the suicide rate of the US.
You really can't compare across cultures, which is why you can't similarly compare Japan's relatively low violent crime rate with the US's. There's a lot of stress associated with working in Japan (I know, I work for a huge Japanese company), with a lot of societal pressures. Add that with a history of glorified ritualistic suicide (harikiri) and there you go, a high suicide rate.

Of course, the conclusion drawn by the "report" is totally irresponsible, but just making a point that different cultures have different values, including their views on violence/suicide/etc.
Yah, you can really only compare the U.S. with other western european cultures, plus Japan is just crazy.

Good comparisons to make are Sweden (high guns, low crime) and England (No guns, gun crimes went up 40%)