TexasCHLforum.com

Just got off the phone with one of my C&R suppliers in Ohio who informed me about a restriction on private firearms sales. He related how an attendee at a gun show bought a handgun on one aisle and resold it on another aisle and was arrested by BATFE for being "engaged in the business" of selling firearms. Supposedly, he was sentenced to 6 years in prison.

The claim is that a firearm must be held for 48 hours by a private owner before being resold.

I had an 01 FFL 30 years ago and hold a C&R license now. I've been buying and selling firearms occasionally for all of the unlicensed portions of my adult life.

I have also tried searching the Federal Firearms Regulations Reference guide for 'engaged in the business' looking for criteria. I could find nothing except the definition I pasted below.

I have heard, but can't presently document, that selling 'x' number of guns within a certain period could be held to be 'engaged in the business'.

I have never heard of a requirement to own a gun for a specified period before it could be resold.

If true, this is a trap that any of us that attend gun shows could fall victim to.

For that reason, I thought I would ask if the knowledgeable folks here could verify or discredit this.

Section 923(a), Title 18, U.S.C., provides that no person shall engage in the business of dealing in
firearms until he has filed an application and received a license to do so. Section 22(a)(l), Title 18,
U.S.C., provides that it is unlawful for any person, other than a licensee, to engage in the business of
dealing in firearms. Licensees generally may not conduct business away from their licensed premises.
The term "dealer" is defined at 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(ll)(A) to include any person engaged in the
business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail. The term "engaged in the business" as applied to a
dealer in firearms means a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a
regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the
repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. A dealer can be "engaged in the business" without taking title
to the firearms that are sold. However, the term does not include a person who makes occasional sales,
exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for

I don't have a direct answer to your question but,,,,,,,

While I'm certainly not "in the business" and no expert, the story seems a little fishy to me.

I guess the BATFE could have simply picked the individual out of the crowd and followed him until he made a sale???? This begs the question; Why did they pick him? Could it be that he actually was "in the business" and they had been watching him for a while? Who knows? As you pointed out, if this is true, it makes those of us who attend gun shows a little nervous not knowing what is and isn't "allowed" and I see nothing in your cited statue that would concern me were I to do the same thing.

While there are many possibilities, I would tend to believe that the story is not true without a lot more detail. IMO, to convince a jury that the guy deserved 6 years prison time for reselling a firearm purchased at a gun show would require much more than what was related to you by the source of the story (and I can't believe it could even happen in Texas). Of course, I'm assuming there was a jury involved.

Nope! I just can't believe it without more information.

bpet wrote:I don't have a direct answer to your question but,,,,,,,

While I'm certainly not "in the business" and no expert, the story seems a little fishy to me.

I guess the BATFE could have simply picked the individual out of the crowd and followed him until he made a sale???? This begs the question; Why did they pick him?

Page 6 of this document explains what BATFE does at gun shows, in coordination with local and state police: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/hous ... /26053.pdf There is mention of an arrest on page 12 of the document but that was from a wants and warrants call.

IANAL, but I also find it hard to believe that a conviction could be obtained for the purchase and subsequent prompt sale of a single firearm.

The definition of "Engaging in the business" has always been murky, but everything I've read previously said that a pattern of behavior had to be established, i.e., multiple purchases and multiple sales. The number of firearms that need to be bought and sold to establish business behavior hasn't, AFAIK, been defined, but I find it hard to believe that number is one.

Anything the BATFE does whether legal or not, ethical or not, clearly defined or not should not surprise you.

If Obamessiah is elected they will be in lock step with his confiscation executive order.

Anygunanywhere

It sounds more like a strawman sale.

Or maybe some anti American group set it up with rogue ATF agents to manufacture something they can use to attack private sales.

Bart wrote:It sounds more like a strawman sale.

Or maybe some anti American group set it up with rogue ATF agents to manufacture something they can use to attack private sales.

While this thought did cross my mind (maybe I'm paranoid), I dismissed it because I still find it hard to believe they could have gotten a conviction and 6 year sentence.

I have purchased guns at gun shows and later in the day as I was walking around, had people approach me, show interest in the gun, and then ask if I wanted to sell it to them. This has actually happened several times at different shows. I never took any offers to sell as I bought the gun or guns because I wanted to own them. I was tempted once because the guy was offering quite a bit more than I paid. I just couldn't do it because I love buying guns and hate selling them...LOL.

This thread makes me wonder if I was being set up or tested by the ATF.

03Lightningrocks wrote:This thread makes me wonder if I was being set up or tested by the ATF.

It's possible especially if it was a NIB gun.

I don't buy guns to sale,but I am shocked at this blatant entrapment techniques by the ATF

03Lightningrocks wrote:This thread makes me wonder if I was being set up or tested by the ATF.

It is possible, I think the only surveillance techniques the BATFE use are: "Entrapment" and "Storm the Compound"