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"Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness." - George Washington



Main Entry: li·cen·tious
Pronunciation: \lī-ˈsen(t)-shəs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin licentiosus, from licentia
Date: 1535
1: lacking legal or moral restraints; especially : disregarding sexual restraints
2: marked by disregard for strict rules of correctness
— li·cen·tious·ly adverb
— li·cen·tious·ness noun

Explain

It is easiest for a Caesar, Hitler or self-anointed champion on a white horse to seize arbitrary power in the wake of misbehavior/irresponsibility/tragedy that happened in a power vacuum, using the pretext of preventing a recurrence.

This occurs quite frequently.

stevie_d_64 wrote:"Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness." - George Washington



Main Entry: li·cen·tious
Pronunciation: \lī-ˈsen(t)-shəs\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin licentiosus, from licentia
Date: 1535
1: lacking legal or moral restraints; especially : disregarding sexual restraints
2: marked by disregard for strict rules of correctness
— li·cen·tious·ly adverb
— li·cen·tious·ness noun

ok, i have a 127 IQ and I had to read it about 12 times and ponder it for a few minutes... Thanks for the definition. I was gonna have to look it up!

plz speak up if this sounds off but i believe it basically translates to two assumptions.

1) Liberty is blocked (abused) or otherwise rendered less effective by the over-use of strict rules and/or litigation, most probably especially in the presence of a lack of moral fiber.

2) In such a condition as mentioned in 1. it is easy for those that would otherwise have not, to accumulate power presumably by manipulating or navigating the excessive rules/laws to their advantage (example: people who can afford a good accountant pay less in taxes because of the complexity of the tax code).

Translation: Excessive laws/rules inhibit liberty and allow an unbalancing of power.

your mileage may vary.

Lead Jedi,

It looks like you are close but a clue to the quotes meaning falls with the use of "Arbitrary." What Washington appears to be saying is if the Union of States fails it will be easy of someone or in the case of Washington and the US, England, to come and establish power once again over the disorganized states.

The quote is not actually a stand alone quote, it is part of The Founders' Constitution which is a rather long piece. Here is the tail end of it, you will see the quote in the last line.

...The Treaties of the European Powers with the United States of America, will have no validity on a dissolution of the Union. We shall be left nearly in a state of Nature, or we may find by our own unhappy experience, that there is a natural and necessary progression, from the extreme of anarchy to the extreme of Tyranny; and that arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of Liberty abused to licentiousness.


The Founders' Constitution
Volume 1, Chapter 7, Document 5
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders ... ch7s5.html
The University of Chicago Press

The Writings of George Washington from the Original Manuscript Sources, 1745--1799. Edited by John C. Fitzpatrick. 39 vols. Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1931--44.

yerasimos wrote:It is easiest for a Caesar, Hitler or self-anointed champion on a white horse to seize arbitrary power in the wake of misbehavior/irresponsibility/tragedy that happened in a power vacuum, using the pretext of preventing a recurrence.

This occurs quite frequently.

Your explanation made me immediately think of the Brady Campaign and how they quickly jump in after ANY gun related tragedy and propose a new restriction.

KaiserB wrote:Lead Jedi,

It looks like you are close but a clue to the quotes meaning falls with the use of "Arbitrary." What Washington appears to be saying is if the Union of States fails it will be easy of someone or in the case of Washington and the US, England, to come and establish power once again over the disorganized states.

The quote is not actually a stand alone quote, it is part of The Founders' Constitution which is a rather long piece. Here is the tail end of it, you will see the quote in the last line.

...The Treaties of the European Powers with the United States of America, will have no validity on a dissolution of the Union. We shall be left nearly in a state of Nature, or we may find by our own unhappy experience, that there is a natural and necessary progression, from the extreme of anarchy to the extreme of Tyranny; and that arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of Liberty abused to licentiousness.


The Founders' Constitution
Volume 1, Chapter 7, Document 5
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders ... ch7s5.html
The University of Chicago Press

The Writings of George Washington from the Original Manuscript Sources, 1745--1799. Edited by John C. Fitzpatrick. 39 vols. Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1931--44.

yep, makes perfect sense when put into context. I've never read that document. Thanks... looks like i have more homework on top of the gunsmithing course :)

Thats why I asked for an explanation...I read it, re-read it and every time I read it I got two different awnsers

I just wanted to verify..plus I was that annoying kid in back that always asked questions because I knew someone out there had questions other than myself but were afraid to ask

I would like to throw this out there for consideration...This may help put my thoughts into a context that may explain why I feel this is a great quote that is applicable in todays society...

The moral fiber of a large precentage of our population is so enamoured by how and what we do with our "free time" from work and other interests, that some will sit for hours (many more than I am willing to do) in front of an object that feeds the masses with so much nonsense, that our very thought processes and decision making is templated by issues stemming from watching too much American Idol, Survivor, and other mind numbing and pathetic examples of entertainment, that again most people will apply those values and examples to how they perceive "real" issues and problems...

Now that is just a small part of what I was getting at, and after I saw that quote, it just kinda hit me the right way...

I believe that many of us are of a moral character and substance that is far superior, yet we are at the same time very humble about our ability to think clearly in moments of calm, and in moment of shear horrific terror...And not be loaded down with the nonsense baggage that permiates others that believe "pop culture" is the way to solve the world's problems...

I say this not as a gun owner or self-defense expert in any way shape or form...

I believe our Founding Fathers had great vision for the future, and that these principles they believed in are timeless...

And they are worth promoting...