TexasCHLforum.com

And I thought I'd heard it all...
http://www.canada.com/topics/news/story ... 563d16ec9f

Gotta be a hoax. Greyhound bans weapons on their buses!

Very little that young man could have done to prevent that psycho from cutting off his head, except for maybe not allow anyone to sit next to him on the bus. I wonder how much a CCW would have helped in this situation - even if someone were to shoot the BG I bet the victim would have bled out, considering it was just so sudden and violent.

They need to lock this guy up and throw away the key. Or better yet, send him to Iraq or Afghanistan to get kidnapped, and then he can feel what it's like to be beheaded. sick.

KBCraig wrote:Gotta be a hoax. Greyhound bans weapons on their buses!

How would that affect or would it apply to a CHL'er? Is the ban legal if not posted?

Mike from Texas wrote:

KBCraig wrote:Gotta be a hoax. Greyhound bans weapons on their buses!

How would that affect or would it apply to a CHL'er? Is the ban legal if not posted?

Of course it's legal. If discovered, they will kick you off at the next stop. Or even at the side of the road, if they wish.

Can they prosecute you? Not in Texas, not without a 30.06 notice.

It's rather academic, since this happened in Canada, where you have to have permission to transport your unloaded, locked-in-a-case, pistol to the target range. Every time, not just once.

KBCraig wrote:

Mike from Texas wrote:

KBCraig wrote:Gotta be a hoax. Greyhound bans weapons on their buses!

How would that affect or would it apply to a CHL'er? Is the ban legal if not posted?

Of course it's legal. If discovered, they will kick you off at the next stop. Or even at the side of the road, if they wish.

Can they prosecute you? Not in Texas, not without a 30.06 notice.

It's legal according to Texas law, but not federal law. 18 USC 922(e) bans carry on carriers engaged in interstate commerce. Greyhound fits that description.

CleverNickname wrote:

KBCraig wrote:

Mike from Texas wrote:Is the ban legal if not posted?

Of course it's legal. If discovered, they will kick you off at the next stop. Or even at the side of the road, if they wish.

Can they prosecute you? Not in Texas, not without a 30.06 notice.

It's legal according to Texas law, but not federal law. 18 USC 922(e) bans carry on carriers engaged in interstate commerce. Greyhound fits that description.

The discussion was whether the ban was legal, not whether carrying on a bus was legal.

I disagree with your interpretation of 18 USC 922(e). In its entirety:

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or
cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for
transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to
persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers,
licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other
container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without
written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is
being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or
legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard
any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in
interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or
ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or
operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the
trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No
common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag,
or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other
container contains a firearm.


That doesn't ban carry on an interstate common or contract carrier. It makes it illegal to ship a package containing a firearm without notifying the carrier (pay attention, all you who ship UPS and list contents as "machine parts"!). It also says that if you legally possess a firearm being transported (i.e., in your luggage) on the same carrier you're riding, it's perfectly legal to entrust the package to the operator. But, there is no requirement to do so if carrying.

Greyhound bans all firearms, even from their cargo service, but they don't use 30.06 notices.

Even though they're a Texas-based company, the incident was in Canada.

Even though they are not 30.06 in Texas, some states don't allow concealed carry on a bus. Missouri is one of them http://www.mshp.dps.missouri.gov/MSHPWe ... HP-863.pdf

Wesley said counselling will be provided and monetary compensation will be determined on an individual basis.

I got sick and depressed just reading about it. Can I have some money now?

KBCraig wrote: I disagree with your interpretation of 18 USC 922(e). In its entirety:

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or
cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for
transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to
persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers,
licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other
container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without
written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is
being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or
legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard
any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in
interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or
ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or
operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the
trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No
common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag,
or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package,
luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other
container contains a firearm.


That doesn't ban carry on an interstate common or contract carrier. It makes it illegal to ship a package containing a firearm without notifying the carrier (pay attention, all you who ship UPS and list contents as "machine parts"!). It also says that if you legally possess a firearm being transported (i.e., in your luggage) on the same carrier you're riding, it's perfectly legal to entrust the package to the operator. But, there is no requirement to do so if carrying.

Greyhound bans all firearms, even from their cargo service, but they don't use 30.06 notices.

Even though they're a Texas-based company, the incident was in Canada.

I'll answer with some questions. What law bans carry on an airliner? It's obviously a federal law that prohibits it, as it's the feds (TSA) who enforce it. So now next question, if it's not 922(e) that bans carry on an airliner, what law does? And if it's not 922(e) that does prohibits such carry, there would have to be another law that differentiates between carry on an airliner and carry on any other form of interstate carrier such as a bus or train, correct? So find such a law and I'll agree that 922(e) doesn't apply.

Also, if you read 922(e) more closely you'll see that shipping a firearm to an FFL is legal even if you don't notify the shipping company. It's only shipping to a non-licensee where notification is required. The vast majority of the time, shipping a firearm will be to an FFL.

Carrying or attempting to board a commercial airplane with a firearm is banned under 49 U.S.C. 46505:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usco ... -000-.html

It is also an offense under state law.

It is a federal offense to ship a firearm without following the common carrier's rules:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b8

B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

The CFR will get you every time, if you just look at the USC.

- Jim

CleverNickname wrote:I'll answer with some questions. What law bans carry on an airliner? It's obviously a federal law that prohibits it, as it's the feds (TSA) who enforce it.

I wouldn't bet that there's any such law. I'm not saying there's not, but there doesn't necessarily have to be one.

What the TSA enforces are CFR regulations, which are constantly changing, not written by Congress, and are sometimes even kept secret from the public, even those charged with breaking them. People charged with breaking TSA rules are very seldom hit with criminal charges. Instead, they're notified of "civil fines" in the thousands of dollars range. No court hearing, no opportunity to challenge.

TSA, in a display of good will, happily negotiates payments.

So now next question, if it's not 922(e) that bans carry on an airliner, what law does? And if it's not 922(e) that does prohibits such carry, there would have to be another law that differentiates between carry on an airliner and carry on any other form of interstate carrier such as a bus or train, correct? So find such a law and I'll agree that 922(e) doesn't apply.

Nope, see above. There doesn't have to be any law at all, let alone one other than 922(e). TSA says you can't carry on board, and since you're not getting on board unless they say you can, it's a moot point. It's not unlike a gun show in a government-owned venue, with an invalid 30.06 notice enforced by local police with metal detectors. They might not have legal authority to do so, but you're still not getting inside without their approval.

Also, if you read 922(e) more closely you'll see that shipping a firearm to an FFL is legal even if you don't notify the shipping company. It's only shipping to a non-licensee where notification is required. The vast majority of the time, shipping a firearm will be to an FFL.

I know, I just didn't want to go off on that tangent. It's not legal to ship interstate to a non-licensee, so this section seems redundant. Back to CFRs, BATFE has a CFR (sorry, don't have a cite handy) that covers shipping, and I believe notification is required even when sending to an FFL. It's been a few years since I researched this, so I'm sorry that I can't quote the regulation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/08/ ... 5215.shtml

The maniac was found not responsible by reason of mental illness (schizophrenia) and committed to a psychiatric hospital: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/06/world ... T_BRF.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim