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I was at Northwest Mall tonight in Houston, and of course I was carrying. My wife, daughter and I were sitting down having some very substandard Chinese food when a large group of Cy Fair HS students came in. They were all wearing their choir shirts, but they only appeared to have come in to eat. I didn't interpret this as a school event because it was 6pm, and they weren't doing anything but eating. Was this OK? There were no vans or buses outside, so I assumed that they had driven themselves, which in my mind makes this not a school event. Comments please.

Doesn't sound like a school event to me either.

-Cain

Isn't Northwest Mall one of Houston's oldest? Seems like that name goes a long way back.

I don't know how old it is, but it has a bad reputation that I felt was unwarranted. It's actually a pretty nice little mall.

nils wrote:I was at Northwest Mall tonight in Houston, and of course I was carrying. My wife, daughter and I were sitting down having some very substandard Chinese food when a large group of Cy Fair HS students came in. They were all wearing their choir shirts, but they only appeared to have come in to eat. I didn't interpret this as a school event because it was 6pm, and they weren't doing anything but eating. Was this OK? There were no vans or buses outside, so I assumed that they had driven themselves, which in my mind makes this not a school event. Comments please.

It doesn't really matter. The only way you would have been questionable is if it was an interscholastic event, and I have never heard of a interscholastic choir event happening at a mall.

The section of the PC that deals with school sponsored events is strictly talking about the physical premises of a school or educational institution, not roaming grounds wherever the sponsored activity is happening.

PC 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

FlynJay wrote:It doesn't really matter. The only way you would have been questionable is if it was an interscholastic event, and I have never heard of a interscholastic choir event happening at a mall.

The section of the PC that deals with school sponsored events is strictly talking about the physical premises of a school or educational institution, not roaming grounds wherever the sponsored activity is happening.

PC 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits
an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses
or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon
listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,
any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation
vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or
educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written
regulations or written authorization of the institution;

Really? Did you miss this part?

any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted

And then, there is also PC 46.035:

(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional
sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless
the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used
in the event;

So if I'm at the zoo, for instance, and a whole bus load of school kids shows up for their field trip the zoo is now off-limits? I'm calling foul on that one.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. My understanding is that the carrying CHL person would at that point have to leave. It's a ridiculous rule, but I think that's how it's supposed to be interpreted.

I don't know that the original intent was to create a roving gun-free school zone, but that is the way it is written. I don't like it either. It puts too many variables and too much guesswork on the CHL holder. But, it is what it is.

The general consensus, which was the thing that also gave us the global warming hysteria, is that the building has to be under the control of the school for that event to be “off limits”. Basically, they have to have made an effort to not allow public entry without some kind of control. It is my opinion that even being in the general area of a concert at a mall or other non-school controlled place is fine. I wouldn’t set in provided seats or be inside designated or marked areas but I don’t hesitate to carry. The “spirit of the law” could not have been to deny carry when a school decides to invade a mall or whatever.

All I posted will not keep anyone from being arrested or charged or convicted and I wouldn’t expect anyone to use a post from the internet to try to prove they have a legal right to carry some place the arresting agency/department thinks they don’t. “Hire a lawyer if you want legal advice”, is the only real opinion I will ever stand by. Everything else is up to the individual to decide for themselves.

Didn't realize a bunch of kids in the food court could qualify as an "event?"

Really? Did you miss this part?

any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted

Nope, didn't miss that part at all. The two parts of the sentence are not meant to be interpreted separately, if they were then carrying "On the physical premises of a school or educational institution would be an offense (which we know is not true).

The sentence could be rephrased to read "Any grounds or building on the physical premises of a school or educational institution on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted" without changing the meaning. (but this is not grammatically correct)

The first part of the sentence sets the place "On the physical premises of a school or educational institution",

The second part specifies the use of that place that would be an offense "any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or
educational institution is being conducted"

And then, there is also PC 46.035:

(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional
sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless
the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used
in the event;

I didn't miss that one either since I did write that you would be illegally carrying if it was an interscholastic event. An interscholastic event would be a competition or invitational between two or more schools. I would also doubt a high school sporting event would be held inside the food court of a mall.

shootthesheet wrote:“Hire a lawyer if you want legal advice”

Nothing stated on this forum should be construed in any way to be legal advise.

What if the choir performed at the mall after eating? Sounds like a school sponsored event to me.

Lets not forget the definition of "Premises" 46.035 defines premises (3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

"On the physical premises of a school or educational institution" means the building or portion of a building.. not the grounds around, driveway, sidewalks, etc.

"any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted" means the actual grounds, building where a sponsored event is taking place.