TexasCHLforum.com

Those who also frequent the "Waiting Room" forum know I have my license now "issued" but obviously still caught up in the postal system.

Me: In MO travelling to in-laws for Turkey week
CHL License: My Mailbox in TX *doh*

Over two days of driving, and 16 hours, it was quite a pleasant journey, as it was last christmas, but this time I almost had to draw on someone...

Anyways, like I said, we were travelling by car across several states to IL, and we had to stop along the way and chose to stop in Springfield, MO, home of a Bass Pro Shop - not that that influenced our thinking.

So we go to dinner, and it's kind of late - 8pm - and the parking lot was packed when we arrived so we parked quite a ways out in the lot, in fact, we are in the last row on the end, and the Tahoe we backed in because it made it easier to get out when we leave. So the driver's side door is facing away from everything.

Anyways, here we are at Ruby Tuesday's restaurant, me and the wife and the kid, all waiting on our meal, when my daughter is coughing from a recent cold, and she has asthma which doesn't help. So we decide I need to run out to the truck and get her inhaler right quick. I of course put on my hooded sweatshirt (where I always keep my hands when it's cold mind you), and head outside to the car. Now because it is like 8pm and kind of late, it is very dark (sun set at 4:34pm in Springfield MO this time of year). Add to that, I don't have my weapon on me (*doh*) as I don't have my CHL plastic in pocket yet (and MO would let me carry and RT is not 51%).

So here I am going out to my truck thinking "man I feel naked and I don't even have my license yet"... funny.. USPS cannot come soon enough I tell you!

Anyways, I get into the truck via the driver's side door (out of habit I guess) and grab her inhaler in the center console. Gun is in the back seat in my camo day pack in the floorboard area.

As I lean back from my inhaler reach I see a guy approaching me via the windshield. Red hoodie, hands in pockets...


*CRAP*

Something is telling me something bad could happen here......


Now the guy is smaller than me, and a bit younger, maybe 24ish. Doesn't look too threatening, but he begins to mutter as he is walking over and he is now looking right at me...

I'm just about to close the door when he comes up to it. I'm thinking the open door just might be handy should I need it here in a sec....

He stops about 4 feet from me and says "excuse me sir, we're not from here and we're looking for a place to eat - do you know of any places we can get some food?"

I'm thinking ... Is this guy for real?

I quickly and abruptly smash my hands into my pockets and bring them up a bit as if I have something I'm holding onto (keys *doh*).

My response to him: "Uhhhh you mean like the restaurant behind me?"

At this point I'm expecting him to jump me right that very second. My heart is POUNDING and I even reflect on how I know my adrenalin is kicking in now.. I WAS READY!!!!!!!

I even changed up my stance and stared him down like I was READY!!!!

He actually takes note of my hands and then looks back at me.

He then goes on to tell me that he is looking for some help - he has no job, no money, and needs food or a shelter.

I exclaim that I don't have any cash as I use only credit cards, and I'm not from around here, I'm just passing through - someone else may be able to help.

At this point, he is clearly stalling if in fact he was going to jump me. He's still just 4 feet from me and I don't feel safe whatsoever. I couldn't even run because I'm kind of barracaded in my driver's side entrance at this point. You can't even see us from the restaurant if you were looking out the window at my car either. Regardless, I couldn't care less about what he really wants, and in order to prepare for the worst, I take this oppty to pretend to de-escalate and I step back to the rear door of my vehicle driver's side, right where I know my gun is. I open the door and reach into my camo pack and lay my hand on my gun and grasp it. I don't pull it out, I pretend like I'm doing something.

So now here I am behind my rear door, now about 6 feet from him, hand on gun..

I'm watching him through the tinted window and he can probably see only my feet at this point..

He pauses and even as I recount this event in order to share it with you here today, I seem to see it is only seconds of a confrontation, but it felt like we were out there for 20 minutes, I swear...

He then just up and walks away... I could not believe it. I'm thinking at this point... I watch him pass from through my windshield, and I quickly check to make sure nobody else is behind me..

I wait for him to get a good ways away down the street, and I lock up the car and run back inside the restaurant, inhaler in hand, and armed with a good story for my wife.

*PHEW*

Was I being too paranoid?

Or was I just being cautious? (I didn't draw, remember)

Could this have turned out much worse? Heck yes - robbery, carjacking, who knows, but I wasn't about to just sit there and let it happen to me!!

Anyways, I'm glad I brought the gun with me and glad I didn't have to use it. I feel naked now w/out being able to carry for a few more days including the return trip, and can't wait to get back to TX and open my mailbox.

Aware and prepared, like you should be.

Have a great holidy.

-Cain

Good call on the "mental switch"

The trick is being able to anticipate the time needed to draw and fire once that switch has been triggered, the training to immediately react to that switch.

Good post!

That's how they size you up. If you seem oblivious, they'll jump you. Since most people are sheep, it's easier to check under the hood and make sure you (if you are a bad guy) are not talking to a guard dog or another wolf... if you are, you move along for a softer target. There are more than enough sheep that it simply doesn't make sense to try to get over on a wolf or a guard dog.

First of all, I congratulate you on dealing with this without having to display the gun! May I do as well. Secondly, thank you for telling your story. Reading about this helps me be better prepared.

LCP_Dogg wrote:
Gun is in the back seat in my camo day pack in the floorboard area.
....
I take this oppty to pretend to de-escalate and I step back to the rear door of my vehicle driver's side, right where I know my gun is. I open the door and reach into my camo pack and lay my hand on my gun and grasp it.
....
I'm watching him through the tinted window and he can probably see only my feet at this point..

Personally, I NEVER leave anything in the car that anyone can see from outside. Stuff is in the trunk by the time I get to where I'm going, or it goes with me when I leave the vehicle. It's way too easy to smash and grab, and in this case they could get your gun in the bargain. I also avoid getting out of the car, putting something in the trunk where anyone can see me do it, and then going into the store, restaurant, etc. Some thieves use a screwdriver for a trunk key, and if they see me put something in the trunk and then leave the car, they will use their "universal pass key" to get into the trunk and take my stuff.

Many years ago someone even took a small grocery bag with lettuce and tomatoes in it that was on the floorboard behind the passenger's seat while we were in church!

Now in this case, being it was dark, and the windows are tinted, it may not be an issue. And it was certainly handy to have the gun where it was when you thought you might need it!

Anyway, if you have no choice about leaving stuff in your vehicle, at least keep the the gun separate in the console, under the seat, or wherever it is out of sight. JMHO.

I think I will have to look into Pepper Spray - maybe they have mini keychain versions?

I usually carry my knife but didn't because of the disarray of travelling - will have to rethink travelling practices now for sure, though.

As for the gun, It was under the back seat in the pack. It surely would still be stolen/peered into should my car be subject to a smash and grab, but I did what I could given there's no trunk in a Chevy Tahoe.

I also thought of another idea - I could have kept a foot in the vehicle and jumped in/locked the door had I needed to (buy some time).. That could have been another option though which I didn't (but should have) consider until now.

As for the comments about declaring them to back off , etc, I think that is a good idea. My CHL instructor also told us this - I just didn't think of it and haven't really practiced doing it - so I guess I will now. It is a very good idea and if nothing else may get them to stop further away (or risk serious bodily injury - theirs, not mine) than the 4 feet this guy got to.

For all I know this guy was just a normal kid looking for some spare change, but for all I know this guy had buddies sitting near by and they were planning to rob me, shoot me, steal my car, and hop on the freeway which is like 10 feet from the parking lot.

Anyways, it all ended up ok and now I've learned some and have another notch on the experience belt, and more ideas to draw from for when or if this or something similar happens to me again (I'm sure it will given this crazy world).

Thanks for all the kind words and ideas, I clearly was not as prepared as I might have thought I was. You can never be too prepared, right? (remembers back to his Boy Scouts pledge).

I like Kimber's Guardian Angel, it fires two 90mph blasts that can reach out 3 yards or more. Haven't needed to use it yet, but it fits well in the pocket or purse and has a long shelf-life. (think it was three years???)

LCP_Dogg wrote:I think I will have to look into Pepper Spray - maybe they have mini keychain versions?

I usually carry my knife but didn't because of the disarray of travelling - will have to rethink travelling practices now for sure, though.

As for the gun, It was under the back seat in the pack. It surely would still be stolen/peered into should my car be subject to a smash and grab, but I did what I could given there's no trunk in a Chevy Tahoe.

I also thought of another idea - I could have kept a foot in the vehicle and jumped in/locked the door had I needed to (buy some time).. That could have been another option though which I didn't (but should have) consider until now.

As for the comments about declaring them to back off , etc, I think that is a good idea. My CHL instructor also told us this - I just didn't think of it and haven't really practiced doing it - so I guess I will now. It is a very good idea and if nothing else may get them to stop further away (or risk serious bodily injury - theirs, not mine) than the 4 feet this guy got to.

For all I know this guy was just a normal kid looking for some spare change, but for all I know this guy had buddies sitting near by and they were planning to rob me, shoot me, steal my car, and hop on the freeway which is like 10 feet from the parking lot.

Anyways, it all ended up ok and now I've learned some and have another notch on the experience belt, and more ideas to draw from for when or if this or something similar happens to me again (I'm sure it will given this crazy world).

Thanks for all the kind words and ideas, I clearly was not as prepared as I might have thought I was. You can never be too prepared, right? (remembers back to his Boy Scouts pledge).

First off, you did very well. No one was injured, you didn't have to draw your gun, and you didn't lose any property.

Here are a couple of thoughts for next time:

1. Commands and stop gestures are good for halting an approach before it reaches the very dangerous point of contact distance. I use a less friendly but very clear:
"Stop there and state your business" at about 25 feet. If that is ignored, I escalate to: "Do not come any closer. If you do, you'll be treated as a threat" at about 15 feet. You could also add an optional "I'm armed and will defend myself" if the subject continues to close. Most bad guys will back off at the initial command if your positioning, posture, and expression are consistent with the appearance of someone who will not be a compliant victim and may very well have the ability to defend himself effectively. No innocent party would continue to approach under these circumstances. If he continues to close with you through the command escalation sequence, that is confirmation that you have a serious problem on your hands and should conduct yourself accordingly by moving to cover and preparing to use force.

2. Your post indicates you were tightly focused on the subject in front of you. Much of what the suspicious individual did is standard distraction practice, and armed robbers often operate in pairs or small groups. Consider doing repeated 360 degree scans for accomplices under circumstances like this to make sure you're addressing all the threats. A favorit tactic is for the actual attack individual or team to approach from a 45 degree angle to the rear while the distractor keeps you occupied.

3. I don't encourage folks to carry pepper spray, which projects tiny, light aerosol droplets of the chemical. It's effects are highly unreliable (ask any police officer, or see the other posts on this forum on the subject) and depending on air currents, you're pretty likely to get a dose yourself. This will not enhance your ability to successfully handle the situation. A similar product that launches a heavy, wet stream of the active chemical at very high speed is a far better bet for this purpose, although still far from a "magic bullet". It's called the Kimber LifeAct Guardian Angel, and is available at Academy Sports for about half of the MSRP of $39.95.

4. Although you ended up dealing with the subject at very dangerous close range, you took advantage of the car door to place an obstacle (and some degree of cover) between the subject and yourself. This limited his options for a lightning attack because he would have to come around the door to launch it. This was a good move, and may well have been a decisive factor in the subject's decision to deescalate rather than attack.

Once again, you did very well under the circumstances. You also acted wisely by conducting an internal after action review as well as subjecting your actions and thoughts to scrutiny from the members of this forum, who often offer thoughts that you may find of value as you prepare an improved plan for managing your next encounter.

Nope, you're not being paranoid. As has already been mentioned, the guy was probably sizing you up. 90% of any face to face interaction is non-spoken communication. Your posture, your mannerisms and direct eye-contact showed this individual that you were a high risk target gun or no gun. As soon as you took a defensive posture he knew he lost any perceived advantage.

I think Excaliber said it as well as anything I could say. Having had to draw my weapon on a road rager bent on crashing my motorcycle with me on it just recently, I think you did everything you could to avoid a deadly confrontation. You did good by maintaining your thought process and not panicking. Im glad it worked out without having to resort to using deadly force on the BG.

Your senses are there for a reason. If your spidey sense is tingling, its not paranoia, and should be listened to. Since you have your CHL now, I highly doubt that you suffer from any mental afflictions such as paranoia. In the immortal words of my Instructor, "you dont have a reason to be paranoid. You are armed."

Congrats on a successful outcome.

Food for thought...

Do you think that your thoughts about your CHL and your gun prior to this incident may have changed your mindset and made you more wary during this confrontation?

I have been thinking about this as a new CHL.

I understand being nervous about being approached by a stranger. I think that it is natural. But at the same time, I don't want to be part of a societal problem (not saying you are) where no one is friendly to each other, everyone is suspicious, and I am thinking about drawing my gun at an encounter that doesn't warrant it. These are the things I also think about when I am carrying.

I guess my food for thought is that I want to be prepared at all times to defend myself using my firearm, but I never want to assume that I am going to. I still want to be aware of my surroundings, and I think the best point brought up above is body language. Without being there, it is impossible to say what body signals you were receiving.

Comments?

Simply stated, there are venues that are more and less appropriate for friendly introduction. In a parking lot, apropos of nothing, followed up with begging, is NOT an appropriate venue for friendly introduction and therefore is a venue where one should be more wary. Nothing wrong with situational profiling. The CHANCE that someone will attempt to mug you is a lot higher when they're begging for money in a dark parking lot than when your pastor introduces them to you over pastry in the fellowship hall. LOL

BTin wrote: I understand being nervous about being approached by a stranger. I think that it is natural. But at the same time, I don't want to be part of a societal problem (not saying you are) where no one is friendly to each other, everyone is suspicious, and I am thinking about drawing my gun at an encounter that doesn't warrant it. These are the things I also think about when I am carrying.

You bring up a good point. There are those here who advocate various defensive postures ("Stay put and state your business," hands up in a stop motion, etc.) that seem to me to be overkill in certain situations. I think it boils down to that old standby, situational awareness: Someone approaches me in a parking lot with car trouble, and it appears to me he has a car and has car trouble, I doubt I'll take the same defensive posture as someone with car trouble with no car in sight .

I have a rather large "personal bubble" (I'm a bit of a xenophobe) and those who know me respect that. My internal alarm probably goes off much earlier than most people's, and I automatically take whatever measures are necessary to keep my bubble intact. I've never had a total stranger keep approaching me inside the limits of my bubble, so maybe there are some signals I send without even thinking about it. (For instance, I'm usually short and curt with strangers until I've established their intent.)

We certainly can't all go running around yelling at people to stop, state your business, etc. That would clearly indicate a breakdown of societal norms, and it would probably not help attract people to our cause. I think adopting the right attitude (both verbal and through body language) at the right time speaks volumes without having to jump into an overly defensive posture during every stranger encounter.