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I hate even posting this but it seems necessary. First, a little back story....

My father is in many members of this forums' peer groups being in his late 50s. As I have become a young adult, I have started to realize his tendency to go against the grain with most situations in life. It seems if it is the less traveled road, he is full boar with that no matter if it is slightly unconventional to highly unconventional.

The reason I mention this is because he has had his CHL for about 5 or so years now and even helped cover the state's portion of my app. So as I started carrying, we talked more about the issue. He is minimalist while carrying most of the time carrying along just the Ruger LCP. But my concern comes from a general lack of respect for standing laws against CHL holders and some naive thinking patterns. I have a much younger step brother who is the star high school football star and even though we all know that it is a huge no no to carry at a school or school oriented event, he has admitted to carrying to these games. Same goes for a seen 30.06 or 51% signs.

The naivety comes in with his argument for such behavior. "If I had to shoot someone, I think the DA would side with me with a psychopath killing scores of people!" I try to tell him what are the chances of something happening like that vs. a confrontation that is much more common and low key (mugging, road rage, etc. where more questions on the situation arise and justification is less obvious) or the even easier scenario of just being made in a place he shouldn't be carrying and convicted.

30.06 has gobs of plausible deniability as most know you have to refuse to leave to get convicted. But a 51% or a school? Thats some serious consequences, especially a school situation. I honestly have tried to find a way to appeal to some rationality in this sense, but he listens to too much Alex Jones to take off his tin foil hat on some things. I have a bug out bag in case I had to get out of dodge, but he has 2 bug out bags and a High Point Carbine with 250 rounds in the water proof lock compartment of his truck.... Being prepared is one thing, but he is tending to lean towards the extremes on these issues and it worries me because I would rather not see my father live out a portion of his latter years behind bars because he doesn't want to adhere to some laws he doesn't see eye to eye with.

So how do you deal with the minority of CHL holders that go through the process, but slack on adhering to the responsibility to abide by the laws set forth for us even if they are poor laws ("laws only effect the law abiding" etc.)? I think there are more than we would like to know like this as this forum is a small segment of responsible CHL holders and many just get the plastic and don't think past that. I guess if push comes to shove, he would just have to face the music and face permanent CHL revocation and a possible rap sheet

In the end, some people really truly believe that it would be better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6 and they're willing to break laws they don't believe in in support of this stance. It's hard to argue with them. IMO, there's something admirable about it. However, on the flip side, they do make the rest of the community look bad IF anything does actually happen with them. I doubt that argument would dissuade him, however.

kalipsocs wrote:he has 2 bug out bags and a High Point Carbine with 250 rounds in the water proof lock compartment of his truck....

Only 250? Be a good son, and buy him some more ammo for Christmas.

Crossfire wrote:

kalipsocs wrote:he has 2 bug out bags and a High Point Carbine with 250 rounds in the water proof lock compartment of his truck....

Only 250? Be a good son, and buy him some more ammo for Christmas.

Oh there is plenty more where that came from.

A bunch of old guys once broke the law and dumped a ship load of tea in the harbor. Look how that turned out.

I have a similar situation. My father in law is in his middle 50's and we got our CHL together. He is a very SIMPLE, old fashion man. If there is a least bit of complexity to something he avoids it. He's been wanting to get a CHL, but has never done anything about it because he didn't know where to start, and just decided it was too much hassle. The only reason he got his CHL, is because I did everything for him to get it setup, and went with him. If he had to do it on his own, he wouldn't do it.

Now, getting a CHL requires a certain amount of responsibility on the license holder to understand the laws. In our class, we were given a handbook containing all 2007-2008 laws. I have read that book religiously several times, trying to soak in as much as I can. I honestly don't know that my father in law has picked his up since the class. I've asked him if he has read it, and he'll say yes, but then he asks me some very basic questions like when we went to see my daughter's school play, he asked "are you going to carry your gun?". Or when he went to see his mother in the hospital, he asked if he can carry his gun there. When I hear these questions, it tells me that he's not reading the laws.

I think part of the problem is that he gets confused VERY easily. His reading comprehension isn't all that good, and unfortunately the laws aren't written to the 6th grade level like most newspapers. As a result, I think the legal aspect are a bit over his head. But the problem is that he doesn't want to appear "stupid" or like he's not being responsibile, so he won't tell me if he doesn't understand something. I ask him all the time if he read the book, and he keeps telling me yes, but I know that he probably didn't.

So in my case I don't know how to deal with him. I'm scared that he doesn't fully understand the laws, where he can take his gun, when he is justified to use force, etc, and might get himself into bigger trouble than if he didn't have a CHL. And I don't think he will admit to not reading the book, in fear of looking "stupid", or not smart enough to understand them. I'm not sure what to do.

I wouldn't worry about it. He is grown and can take care of himself. Feel free to give him advice and encourgement, but don't take a scolding approach. Some people are just hard headed and set in their ways. My dad is one. Of course he is in his 60's and feels that if he gets thrown in prison it will be three squares and cable, what more could he ask for!

BigBlueDodge wrote:So in my case I don't know how to deal with him. I'm scared that he doesn't fully understand the laws, where he can take his gun, when he is justified to use force, etc, and might get himself into bigger trouble than if he didn't have a CHL. And I don't think he will admit to not reading the book, in fear of looking "stupid", or not smart enough to understand them. I'm not sure what to do.

Maybe you can invite him to go with you to Charles Cotton's Texas Self-Defense & Deadly Force
Laws Seminar.

WildBill wrote:

BigBlueDodge wrote:So in my case I don't know how to deal with him. I'm scared that he doesn't fully understand the laws, where he can take his gun, when he is justified to use force, etc, and might get himself into bigger trouble than if he didn't have a CHL. And I don't think he will admit to not reading the book, in fear of looking "stupid", or not smart enough to understand them. I'm not sure what to do.

Maybe you can invite him to go with you to Charles Cotton's Texas Self-Defense & Deadly Force
Laws Seminar.

Good suggestion WildBill. This would be an excellent opportunity for you guys!

I know I'm going to be watching for one.

kalipsocs, your dad is lucky to have a son with some common sense. Too many fathers are frazzled by irresponsible kids. It sounds like you're doing the right things. I am 56, so I assume that I'm near your dad's age. I wish I could give you some advice about what to say to your dad, but I can't. What I can tell you is that I've found that my own behavior tendencies in my 50s (other than having been modified by my Christian salvation) is basically the same as when I was in my 20s. I just have more money now than I did then - which may not be a good thing! I was rebellious back then, and I tend to be rebellious now. I never had trouble parting with a dollar then. I still don't today. Mainly, it is things like my faith, and my decreased physical abilities which have modified my behavior more than anything someone else told me.

That being said, I've been blessed with a pretty smart son, and he is not afraid to tell me when he thinks I'm on a wrong track. He does it with respect and love, but he does it none-the-less. Sometimes, he's wrong about it; but other times he's not; and I've learned to give him a fair hearing.

If your dad appreciates your intelligence, he'll listen to you. He may act as if he isn't listening, and he may seem on the surface to slough off what you're saying and poo-poo your suggestions, but if he trusts you, he'll actually be listening to what you say. There is a point where fathers have to accept that their sons are gaining in wisdom and insight. That can be painful for fathers, because they have reached a point where they are no longer talking to their son, but to a mature adult who is their intellectual peer.

I'll bet that your dad is actually listening to what you say. Keep bringing it up - not like a broken record, but just whenever conversation naturally turns that way - and I'll bet that your dad will eventually come around.

My dad is the same about getting a CHL. If he thinks he needs a handgun he carries one. He is the kind of guy that will run a stop sign and think he shouldn't be ticked for doing so. I don't understand it. I see that sort of attitude the same as I do anyone who refuses to face facts. If I thought he really had made an informed decision about his carrying without a CHL I wouldn't even give it a second thought. It seems to me he doesn't really have any clue, though I have told him, of what kind of problems he can get into. He has always been this way so I can't put the cause on his age. Hard-headed or just too ignorant of reality. Either way, I understand that it is his decision. I can only do so much to urge him to do the right thing. Ultimately, it is an individual decision that we all must make.

Nothing I posted here has ever happened but was used as a matter of relating to the original poster.....yea.

Kalipsocs,

The thing you might do when talking to you father is give him some credit for being partially right. As a general rule, if something happens and he does need the weapon, Texas DA's and juries have traditionally looked more at the justification for the shooting than how the person happened to have a weapon. This is true whether it is a simple one on one mugging or a crazy person shooting up the crowd.

After agreeing with him on that, then you could point out that DA's like Ronnie Earl did exist and still do. He may know the one in his area and trust him, but there will be other DA's in other areas and in the future. You could also point out the old rule still exists about him beating the rap but not the ride.

And if that doesn't work, I would suggest letting it drop. Once you have made him aware of your concerns and the facts, do not risk arguing too much and getting it to a point that causes trouble. Just start praying he is right and preparing yourself to help him when he is wrong and needs help.

Thanks guys. I always enjoy the wisdom as well as rational thought of members of this forum. I mainly wanted to just vet the issue and see if others had similar experiences and new ways of approaching the issue. After I finished the initial post, I realized that is his choice to make in the end as many have said. If the issue arises, I will try some suggested soft approaches mentioned on this forum and just make sure he is aware (even if he doesn't think deep enough of said implications) of the potential consequences. Past that, to each his own. And "you may beat the rap, but not the ride" has earned a spot in the book of proverbs in the ole noggin. Thanks again everyone

As one of those "over 50" croud, I carried before CHL came along and even though I have my CHL, things haven't changed much. However, I do obey the laws as I don't want to lose the CHL now that I have it.

Just have patience with him and discuss it logically. Don't try to scold him about it as this will do more harm than good.