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So I was reading another thread and some users were using the term "in battery" and I'd NEVER heard it before in regards to small arms.

First, by context, I seemed to take it as "the firearm is all correctly and smoothly loaded and read to fire." Is that accurate?

My only previous experience was more military artillery oriented, like when a gun is rolled up to a parapet and ready to fire it's "in battery" and when it is pulled back, it is "out of battery." Just curious if I got the context right, and if this is a widely used term... as I said, I'd never heard it in this context before.

You got it 100% correct.

http://groups.google.com/groups/search? ... p=rec.guns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

This begs the question, is possible for some types of handguns to fire without being "in battery", i.e. the breech not completely closed or locked? I would think that as long as the firing pin hits the primer with enough force, this could happen. I think this is what the posts about the recoil spring were trying to address.

Thanks for that link, Jim... that reminds of of a friend who said he always palms the back of the slide with a love top because he used to have a 1911 that didn't go all the way home when racking a round into the tube.... Learn something new every day. :) I appreciate it.

WildBill wrote:... is possible for some types of handguns to fire without being "in battery", i.e. the breech not completely closed or locked?

I'm sure that some pistol built in the past century can fire without the slide being fully forward.

However, the pistols commonly in use today would not.

In the first place, the chamber holds the cartridge against the force of the firing pin. If the firing pin hits a loose cartridge, the primer will not detonate.

Second, modern pistols have internal safety mechanisms that will not function unless all the components are aligned within thousandths of an inch.

I could be proven wrong. I don't make a practice of trying to produce failures with firearms.

Morgan wrote:Thanks for that link, Jim... that reminds of of a friend who said he always palms the back of the slide with a love top because he used to have a 1911 that didn't go all the way home when racking a round into the tube....

You're welcome. I always enjoy taking about word origins and language in general.

I think I would want to get that problem fixed.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

WildBill wrote:... is possible for some types of handguns to fire without being "in battery", i.e. the breech not completely closed or locked?

I'm sure that some pistol built in the past century can fire without the slide being fully forward.

However, the pistols commonly in use today would not.

In the first place, the chamber holds the cartridge against the force of the firing pin. If the firing pin hits a loose cartridge, the primer will not detonate.

Second, modern pistols have internal safety mechanisms that will not function unless all the components are aligned within thousandths of an inch.

I could be proven wrong. I don't make a practice of trying to produce failures with firearms.- Jim

It looks like it can happen on a modern pistol. I found this article about just this subject.
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/dimples.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seamusTX wrote:I think I would want to get that problem fixed.

- Jim

Well he doesn't have that gun anymore, but I'd shoot enough that I un-taught myself the habit. It's a good excuse, right? LOL

WildBill wrote:http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/dimples.html

You do know how controversial Dean Speir, is, right?

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

WildBill wrote:http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/dimples.html

You do know how controversial Dean Speir, is, right? - Jim

Never heard of the guy before today.

Let's just say he is highly opinionated and others have strong opinions of him.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:Let's just say he is highly opinionated and others have strong opinions of him. - Jim

Thanks for the heads-up. I did a little research and re-evaluated the information in his article. I know the type and that is one of the reasons that I don't frequent gun boards.

Many blowback operated semi-autos can fire way out of battery without having problems. The later model (M1 & M1A1) Thompson SMGs, with the firing pin actually milled into the end of the bolt would fire just as soon as the pin put enough pressure on the primer, and there was no way to adjust the headspace.

M1919 MGs and M2s can also fire a significant distance out of battery, but that is dangerous and headspace adjustments are critical.

Clumsy gunsmithing can cause just about any gun to fire out of battery.