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I'm in window-shopping mode for a confortable-to-hold, yet easy-to-conceal semi-auto for Sunday go-to-church carry. I'm a pastor, so it needs to be discreet but accessible under my vestments, probably via pocket carry.

Oh, yeah - it has to be affordable.Seecamp, Kahr, et. al., need not apply.

What are 1st hand opinions of the PF9's reliability, controlability and shootability? Good gun for the price? How would you compare it with other small 9s? Is it manageable, with a good holster, for pocket carry? I checked kel-tec's website. It's only .11 wider than the P3 (.380) and about a half-inch longer. But, it is about an inch taller than the P3, and the short stumpy grip is something I don't like about the P3 - I feel like I'm holding a bar of soap that will go squirting away at the first shot.

Thanks,
Q

Edit: Also interested in price info. Best price I've found in the county is "about" $265. Salesman couldn't find his price sheet when I called...

Do not own one but have shot one several times. It is a friends.
Very controlable, very accurate for such a small gun. I can hold an 8" paper plate at 7yds off hand. Can be pocket carried if you are a pretty good size lad like the owner & do not wear tight jeans.
My oppinion & YMMV

I'm 6'4", 280lbs +.

Almost all of my dress pants are pleated.
Blue jeans? People pay me *not* to wear tight jeans.

Q

quoheleth wrote:
What are 1st hand opinions of the PF9's reliability, controlability and shootability? Good gun for the price? How would you compare it with other small 9s? Is it manageable, with a good holster, for pocket carry? I checked kel-tec's website.

Edit: Also interested in price info. Best price I've found in the county is "about" $265. Salesman couldn't find his price sheet when I called...

Q -

My PF9 is a keeper. If you bought one today, it would probably have the "upgrades" that new firearms generally get after the first editions have been shooting for a while.

Reliability: mine is reliable with 115 gr. 125gr. & 147 gr. projectiles. I've heard of a few that won't feed 147's reliably. Mine always goes "bang" when I intend for it to do so.

What about pocket carry? I bought a good pocket holster (D. M. Bullard) and tried pocket carry, but the weapon is just a l-t-t-t-l-e too large for me to carry in my pocket. Maybe I have small pockets. If you get a PF9 and think you'd like to pocket carry, maybe we could work out a temporary loan of my pocket holster to see if that's what you'd really like.

Controlability: The PF9 is controlable as long one grips it reasonably tightly. Because of its slight weight, there are some who are put-off by what they perceive as heavy recoil. I'm not one of them.

Shootability: The PF9 has a long trigger draw (like a double action revolver) and, in mine, there is no staging.

Is it manageable?: Yes. The checkering is hand-punishingly aggressive. Some PF9 owners file it down. I chose to slip on a Hogue Handall Jr (which fits perfectly).

Price: $265 is a good price.

The PF9 is a twelve ounce gun. Corbon has a new 80 grain 9mm DPX round @1300 fps and 300 ft-lbs ME. Sounds like a potent combination of lightweights for EDC.

I own one and it shoots well, conceals well, and is very affordable.

If you buy one, plan on taking a lot of time to shoot it as the trigger pull is VERY long. If you are used to regular semi auto pistols, then this will be a new experience.

The first time I shot my father in law's P3AT, I could not keep 5 rounds on a full size sillouette. I am a pretty fair shot.

After 2 boxes, I can put all rounds in the 8 ring at 10 yards with my P3AT and my PF9. I paid $249 when they first came out.

I have had not FTF, FTE, or any other problems. It is a good gun. I think that they worked out most of their Kel-Tec problems on the P3AT.

texasag

I know you said first-hand opinions only but I also was looking at a PF9 and wound up with a Kahr CW9. Even though one poster said $265 was a good price for a PF9, I was unable to find one anywhere for under about $330. $40 more gets a CW9 which is, IMHO, a far superior pistol in every way and worth the extra $40 and then some. The size is nearly identical and the quality is much better.

Of course if you can find a PF9 for $100 less than a CW9 then the PF9 looks like a much better deal.

Just thought I'd throw that out there. CW9 may be worth checking out. The most useful of Kahr P9 features at just over 1/2 the P9 price. I think it's the best value in a CCW pistol on the market.

I too am a minister and carry a PF9. Good gun, a bit snappy though. I put the Hogue Handall Jr grip on it.... If you turn the grip upside down, you won't have to trim it and it covers more. I sanded down the seams of the gun, as using it on the range would eat into the web of my thumb and first finger. When I wear pleated pants, I can put it in a pocket holster in my pants pocket. It fits fine in a sportcoat pocket. When I wear jeans, I carry it in this outer concealed carry pouch, that looks like an insulin pack http://www.desantisholster.com/storefro ... tm_index=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . Someone once asked me what I had in it, I just replied my death metal, and kept going, lol. When Taurus finally come out with their SLIM 709, I may trade up to that, http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009 ... mpact-9mm/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know some suggest a Kahr. I have looked at them, and good gun... but as a minister you might be concerned that they are made by the Unification Church, ie the "moonies" with proceeds going back into a church/cult that has as their self professed purpose to take over the world.

I had one and it suffered from that pin creep thing they talk about on KTOG forum. I sent it back to Keltec and they gave me a new frame. It's definitely not a range gun but I don't like carrying a gun that I haven't shot at least a few thousand rounds with. I couldn't see myself getting proficient with the PF-9 when shooting one box of ammo was painful. Then I saw this in the FAQ on the Kel-tec website...

Q : What is the expected life of a Kel-Tec firearm
A : All Kel-Tec firearms have an expected life of 6,000 rounds or more.

Just 6,000?! No 20,000 round torture test? So by the time I feel confident with the gun, it's almost halfway through its life expectancy?

I no longer own it.

Called the LGS yesterday, and the salesman I spoke to on Tuesday said he was mis-informed by his boss. The PF9s are not in stock, they are on order. So, since I'm waiting on the plastic from the State, I guess I'll wait & shop some more.

Now, I'm torn...the PF9 feels better, but if it's chewing up my hand, that won't do much good...

Does the little KT .380 do the same thing? What about the LCP? Hmmm...I wonder what Ruger's life expectancy of the LCP is...after conventional wisdom says "all" they did was cc. the KT3AT.

Q

Yes, the 380 will be about the same as the PF9. Reason being is size. The smaller the gun, by and large, your absorbing more recoil. I have the P3AT, LCP and PF9 that I swap around for conceal carry. Id rather have the PF9 if I really got in a fight due to a 380 being more minimal in knockdown than the 9. That being said, any caliber beats nothing. I would not worry about "eating your hand." Once I sanded the rough seams, put the rubber grip on it, and learned how to hold it differently, its fine. Besides, these are not range guns, they are "get-off-me" guns. They arent accurate for much more than gut guns, as the sights are pretty vestigal on the LCP/P3AT. You have full sights on the PF9, making that better. Too, learning to stage the trigger helps. If you do go with one of the 380's, I'd go with the Hornady Critical Defense rounds for your self defense rounds. They have the rubber inserts that force full expansion, and low flash powder so your not flash blinded at night. 380's used to be bad about not expanding much, or even any.
For home defense, we have a Taurus 24-7 9mm, Taurus 24-7 pro compact 9mm, and a Steyr 40 cal.
I wouldn't worry about life expectancy on the Kel Tec's. They are warranted for life, and as a up close, self defense weapon, you shouldn't be shooting them that much. Besides, the site says expectancy is AT LEAST 6,000 rounds.

wgoforth wrote: I know some suggest a Kahr. I have looked at them, and good gun... but as a minister you might be concerned that they are made by the Unification Church, ie the "moonies" with proceeds going back into a church/cult that has as their self professed purpose to take over the world.

I think it is probably a stretch to suggest they are being "made by the Unification Church". In fact the Unification church explicitly denies any business relationship whatsoever with Kahr Arms. http://www.unification.net/misc/washpost990315.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does anyone have any legitimate evidence to suggest that Kahr Arms is actually owned by the Unification Church, or that the profit from the sale of Kahr firearms is being funneled directly into the Unification Church (that is, apart from private individual donations by employees or shareholders)?

In any case, do we have any idea of what the religious affiliation or belief is of the owner or CEO of Kel-Tec? Glock? Ruger? Smith & Wesson? Springfield Armory? Taurus? Bersa? I guess ignorance is bliss. I have a Kahr. I also have a Smith & Wesson, a Taurus, and a Marlin, among my firearms. I have no idea what the religious or political beliefs of the beneficiaries of the profits from those gun purchases are. I don't think I care, but who knows, because I don't know.

I would see a difference in what owners choose to do with their personal salary, verses direct proceeds going. With the later, I am directly helping to fund, in this case a cult. Some may not see the diff, but when Red Cross offers you something with a portion of the proceeds going to Red Cross, we understand that as different verses say buying something at a yard sale, and that yard sale owner gives some of their money to Red Cross. Your right, I don't care what religion the employees are. I mean I do, but doesn't stop me from purchasing.

It was "Rev" Moon's son, Justin Moon, who designed the Kahr pistol and founded the company in 1993. I have frequently heard these referred to as "Moony Guns." Kahr is owned by Saeilo Corporation, which is owned by the Unification Church http://www.portfolio.com/careers/featur ... ion-Church" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; .

Here is a Washington Post article stating that the church turned to making guns to fund its declining business empire, with Moon saying Kahr is critical to the cult's future.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/na ... moon10.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The connection is well known and well established. If your conscious allows you to buy one, that's great! But I wanted to point out to the other minister the ownings of such so he could at least make an informed decision.

Search on KTOG.org for PF9 vs Kahr. Most on there who have had both, said they either couldn't tell the difference, or not enough to merit the extra cost. But, those are matters of personal choice.

quoheleth wrote: Now, I'm torn...the PF9 feels better, but if it's chewing up my hand, that won't do much good...
Does the little KT .380 do the same thing? What about the LCP? Hmmm...I wonder what Ruger's life expectancy of the LCP is...after conventional wisdom says "all" they did was cc. the KT3AT.Q

The PF9 is the only Keltec pistol I don't have, at least if you don't count the PLR16. I'm good with the P11, but I bet a PF9 will wander along sooner or later.
I can't pocket carry a P11 unless it's snowing outside and I'm wearing a parka. I don't think the PF9 would be much better in that respect. In fact, the PF9 is almost exactly the same size as my Llama .380s, and I don't carry those either.
So for me, a P3AT is always in my pants pocket.

As someone else said, the Keltecs tend to have some sharp checkering on the grips. I like them that way, but some sand the tips down.
I don't have any problem shooting my P3At 50 rounds at a session.
One thing that I always recommend is buying the pinky mag lip extensions. This increases the effective grip length to approximately that of the PF9, and makes a world of difference in control. Without the extensions you have to squeeze the grip very hard just to control muzzle flip and prevent limp-wrist syndrome. The pinky lip lets leverage do most of the work. The downside is it increases the profile, makes it a little harder to draw from pocket. And it won't fit in the cute little zipper pouch from Keltec.

I just bought an LCP. Seems like it's better made, but it's certainly a blatant copy of the P3AT, with smoother lines.
No opinion on it yet, the Keltec is still my #1.

I like using the finger extension on the range, but it can interfere with drawing out of pocket carry. Your right, the basic shape and size of the LCP and the P3AT are almost the same, but are definitly differences. The finish, as you suggest is better on the LCP. The grip feels better to me too. The LCP has an internal ejector, while the KT is external. The LCP has a slide lock, while the KT does not. Note: I find that both good and bad. The LCP's slide lock is manual. That is it doesn't rack-back on it's own on empty. So, it's usefullness is limited, while providing more opportunity to snag up on a draw. Even the Taurus TCP looks very much like the two, and the name seems awfully close to LCP, http://www.gunsholstersandgear.com/2009 ... ruger-lcp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If ya'll haven't already, be sure to check out http://mouseguns.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; it shows and compares dimensions of carry guns,