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One Shot wrote:Visited the Missions in San Antonio, which are managed by the NPS. On previous visits I did not notice the buildings posted with no guns allowed signs. I thought these signs are probably a result of the recent rule change on concealed carry in national parks. In this case, the missions themselves were not posted, but the visitors' centers, shops, etc. were.
Do you all think it's ironic the NPS believes they now need signs to remind us, the non-felon, law-abiding, trusted citizens allowed to carry in the the rest of the state? Further, if they didn't post these buildings in the past, then these signs are meant only for us, not the rest of the public, including those who'll carry whenever they want, not deterred by a sign. So, in effect, they're reminding those criminally carrying that we are probably not.

One Shot wrote:But the buildings were off limits to us (and everyone else) BEFORE the rule was changed.
And there were no signs then.
I guess it just bothers me we're getting singled out.

Oldgringo wrote:Help me with this. We, CHL folk, can carry in the NPS but we can't carry in the visitor centers, gift shops, eating joints, etc. within the NPS. Is that what I'm reading here?

Oldgringo wrote:WELL! If this ain't a fine kettle of fish!

I'm glad y'all brought this up. If we don't go broke first, we may RV a couple of western NP's this summer and I'd hate to have to go to the penitentiary for doing touristy things with a CCW.

One Shot wrote:Do you all think it's ironic the NPS believes they now need signs to remind us, the non-felon, law-abiding, trusted citizens allowed to carry in the the rest of the state? Further, if they didn't post these buildings in the past, then these signs are meant only for us, not the rest of the public, including those who'll carry whenever they want, not deterred by a sign. So, in effect, they're reminding those criminally carrying that we are probably not.

ELB wrote:Carry on NPS and Wildlife Refuge land was/is a victory. Next of course is elimating the federal building ban... but that will require changing the composition of both congress and the whitehouse, I think. And perhaps doing it a chunk at a time, e.g. first buildings primarily devoted to servicing the public, like visitor centers and such.

I was out to the Grand Canyon lately, and visited that and some other federal park lands in the area. I did run into one interesting situation --- a large outdoor site for viewing archeologic ruins was only accessible by going thru a small visitor center -- you couldn't get to the outdoor area from the (outdoor) parking lot without going into a federal building. BOO!

So for the next step, I would target visitor centers and other areas that are not limited to strictly federal employees, places where Joe Citizen has everyday access.

shipwreck wrote: I posted a question about carrying in the Grand Canyon park, and someone directed me to this thread.

Good to hear it. Obama isn't in the process of reversing this, is he?

And, someone warned me about having a gun on an Indian Reservation. So, if I travel thru AZ to the Grand Canyon, I guess I have to be careful and not cut thru any reservations if I have a gun in the car?

Title 36 -- Parks, Forests, and Public Property
Chapter 1 -- National Park Service
Part 2 -- Resource Protection, Public Use, and Recreation

Section 2.4 was amended by adding the following paragraph:

"(h) Not withstanding any other provision in this Chapter, persons may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area in accordance with the laws of the state in which the national park area, or that portion thereof, is located, except as otherwise prohibited by federal law."

Title 50 -- Wildlife and Fisheries
Chapter 1 - United States Fish and Wildlife Service, DOI
Part 27 Prohibited Acts
Subpart D Disturbing Violations: With Weapons

Section 27.42 Firearms, was amended by adding the following paragraph:

"(e) Not withstanding any other provision in this Chapter, persons may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national wildlife refuge in accordance with the laws of the state in which the wildlife refuge, or that portion thereof, is located, except as otherwise prohibited by federal law."

Here is a link to the Department of the Interior press release announcing the final rule:
http://www.doi.gov/news/08_News_Releases/120508.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here a link to the DOI's final rule, with the language I quoted above, plus all the other governmental overhead that goes with it (25 pages of text to implement two, nearly identical, one-sentence additions the the CFR!)
http://www.doi.gov/issues/Final%20Rule.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;