TexasCHLforum.com

Just a kind of after-the-fact question:

Texas Engineering Extension Service (TEEX) is a part of the Texas A&M System. But, I don't know how this makes it relate to CHL law. They teach courses there as relate to occupational safety, but they are not directly college classes but are more of continuing education classes for professionals in the field (although enough of the completed courses can be transferred to a community college for credit). I took a week long course at the San Antonio location last week. None of the area is posted with any type of sign (not even the ghostbuster sign). Does the fact that it is a part of the Texas A&M System make it a "gun-free" zone? I personally wouldn't classify it as an "institute of higher-education" but would like to get other opinions on it and whether being a part of the A&M system makes it an institute of higher education. I carried the whole week, but the situation in general got me thinking so would like some insight. Thanks.

It doesn't need to be higher education. You can't carry guns in kindergarden either.

TEEX is a private company and their connection with A&M is a bit misleading, they use the A&M Pool at Galveston for the H.U.E.T. Training. Not sure about the facility in San Antonio. They are a "Extension Training" service of A&M.....whatever that means. The classroom/offices in Galveston are not on A&M Property and are not posted.

Anyway, I carried for the single day class in Galveston but left my pistol in the car both for the Classroom and Pool functions.

roberts wrote:It doesn't need to be higher education. You can't carry guns in kindergarden either.

Yes, well it's obviously not a "school" in the primary or secondary level. So that's why I didn't mention that and instead focused on the "higher education" aspect of the law.

will381796 wrote:Yes, well it's obviously not a "school" in the primary or secondary level. So that's why I didn't mention that and instead focused on the "higher education" aspect of the law.

The "higher education" aspect of the law is for security guards carrying "a nightstick or similar club" on the job.

Guns are prohibited "on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution" by section 46.03 of the penal code. That includes CHL.

Captain Matt wrote:

will381796 wrote:Yes, well it's obviously not a "school" in the primary or secondary level. So that's why I didn't mention that and instead focused on the "higher education" aspect of the law.

The "higher education" aspect of the law is for security guards carrying "a nightstick or similar club" on the job.

Guns are prohibited "on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution" by section 46.03 of the penal code. That includes CHL.

Does Texas penal code define a "school"? I mean, it seems common sense, but I would not describe a place that provides work-related training such as TEEX as a school. What about a house where someone is homeschooled? Does that now qualify as a "school?"

will381796 wrote:Does Texas penal code define a "school"?

No, we do not have a legal definition of a school. This has led to the question of what areas are really off limits. Does a pre-k day care count? What if it calls itself a Montessori School? How about the Sunday School at the nearby church? And then there is the driving school, the real estate school, and Cabela's when they host hunter safety classes.

Another big questions is if the teaching hospitals count as schools? Places like Baylor's hospital/school in the Dallas area are both hospitals and schools.

This is why the bill I wanted to see was just a simple "in this section, school or educational institution means a public or private elementary or secondary school as defined in the Education Code".

I support the current bill to allow campus carry, but this definition would have done it also. Of course, the bill allowing campus carry has some other protections in it too, such as forbidding schools fromt aking action against a CHL who does carry.

Aggie jokes aside, it's tough to argue it's not an educational institution if it's a part of the Texas A&M System.

boomerang wrote:Aggie jokes aside, it's tough to argue it's not an educational institution if it's a part of the Texas A&M System.

Having attended a few times I can ensure anyone that it has always been a learning experience complete with classrooms and labs.

I have been wondering about the definition of "school" as well. I do not have my CHL yet, but I am taking the class on Saturday. I pick up my kids from a day care each day, and am wondering if I will have to disarm in the car? There are no signs posted.

Biga9999 wrote:I have been wondering about the definition of "school" as well. I do not have my CHL yet, but I am taking the class on Saturday. I pick up my kids from a day care each day, and am wondering if I will have to disarm in the car? There are no signs posted.

First off, the day care may not be considered a school, but for now let's just assume it is. With your CHL you will be allowed to carry in you vehicle and on the grounds of the school as long as there is no 'school sponsored event' being conducted (like an outdoor concert or sports event, etc.) In Texas the definition of premise for schools is the building itself, so you cannot carry into the physical building. You should learn more details on this in class Saturday.

Thanks Keith. I will make sure to ask on Saturday for the instructors opinion. Thinking about it I would assume it does qualify as a school since there are so many kids, teachers/caregivers.

Keith B wrote:

Biga9999 wrote:I have been wondering about the definition of "school" as well. I do not have my CHL yet, but I am taking the class on Saturday. I pick up my kids from a day care each day, and am wondering if I will have to disarm in the car? There are no signs posted.

First off, the day care may not be considered a school, but for now let's just assume it is. With your CHL you will be allowed to carry in you vehicle and on the grounds of the school as long as there is no 'school sponsored event' being conducted (like an outdoor concert or sports event, etc.) In Texas the definition of premise for schools is the building itself, so you cannot carry into the physical building. You should learn more details on this in class Saturday.

Biga9999 wrote:Thanks Keith. I will make sure to ask on Saturday for the instructors opinion. Thinking about it I would assume it does qualify as a school since there are so many kids, teachers/caregivers.

Keith B wrote:

Biga9999 wrote:I have been wondering about the definition of "school" as well. I do not have my CHL yet, but I am taking the class on Saturday. I pick up my kids from a day care each day, and am wondering if I will have to disarm in the car? There are no signs posted.

First off, the day care may not be considered a school, but for now let's just assume it is. With your CHL you will be allowed to carry in you vehicle and on the grounds of the school as long as there is no 'school sponsored event' being conducted (like an outdoor concert or sports event, etc.) In Texas the definition of premise for schools is the building itself, so you cannot carry into the physical building. You should learn more details on this in class Saturday.

IINAL, but think it really depends on if it is licensed as a pre-school or if it is just a daycare. If they actually are a school, and do teaching structured education there, then it may be. These are the gray areas and hard to determine. Sometimes it is better to be safe than sorry and just not carry into a location that is questionable.

Enjoy the class!

Thanks Keith. I am really looking forward to the class.

They do have curriculum and are NAEYC certified. Sounding more and more like a school.

Now how do I stealthily reholster when I get in the car without my 4 year old daughter noticing? She notices everything. I was buying ammo at Academy the other day and not really paying attention. I took 5 boxes up to the register. The girl checking me out scanned one in her hand, looked down and said "4 boxes" (she forgot about the one in her hand) and was about to ring me up, when my 4 yr old daughter says, "That's 5."

Love her honesty.