Page 1 of 1
51% sign - question
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 11:26 am
by bat1
I do service work and go into several for small businesses and homes, and one place that is recovering from IKE, they are NOT open for business yet, awaiting there license. And the question is,
1. IF a businesses IS or going to be 51% but do not post a sign, can you carry in there?
2. IF they are going to be 51% but not open (still considered a bar) can you carry there?
3. If they are a business is 51% and you can not tell, no sign posted can you carry?
BAT
Re: 51% sign - question
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:38 pm
by Kalrog
Going to be holds no weight. They have to BE licensed by TABC as a 51% place in order for it to be off limits. They do not have to post the sign for it to be off limits - just licensed as such. I don't think open or closed matters.
Re: 51% sign - question
Posted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:00 pm
by MBGuy
Whether they are posting a sign or not is irrelevant, it's our job to see their TABC license and see if it says "SIGN=RED" or "SIGN=BLUE". This may be fixed in this legislative session, but only as a defense to prosecution.
IF they are already licensed and open for business, whether or not you're there during normal business hours, no-carry is what I would think, but I'm not sure on that one. Even if you're not a customer, you're a vendor, I don't see the distinction in the code.
If they aren't licensed yet, the answer is yes, even if obviously going to be a bar but it's just not open yet, as it can't BE a bar until it's licensed. There's no such thing as a non-licensed bar in the eyes of the TPC or TABC, I would think.
Just my $0.02.......IANAL.
Re: 51% sign - question
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:06 am
by stash
I have wondered, does the TABC license have to be posted so the general public can see it or do you have to ask management to see the license?
Re: 51% sign - question
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:41 am
by MBGuy
My understanding is that it has to be visible and readable to the public. My experience on the matter is that while it has always been visible, sometimes it's quite a chore to find it, and then sometimes it's posted so high you can't read it. Or at least, my eyes can't read it.
Re: 51% sign - question
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:56 am
by hirundo82
bati wrote: If they are a business is 51% and you can not tell, no sign posted can you carry?
Bars are required to post 51% signs prominently according to the Texas Government Code:
Sec. 411.204. NOTICE REQUIRED ON CERTAIN PREMISES. (a) A business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, and that derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the business premises a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c).
(c) The sign required under Subsections (a) and (b) must give notice in both English and Spanish that it is unlawful for a person licensed under this subchapter to carry a handgun on the premises. The sign must appear in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height and must include on its face the number "51" printed in solid red at least five inches in height. The sign shall be displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
However, it is not currently a defense to prosecution under Penal Code Section 46 that the business did not have the signs properly posted. In other words, if the business did not have the signs posted they are in violation of the law but you can still be convicted of a felony for carrying on the premises. Hopefully that will get fixed this session.
Re: 51% sign - question
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:28 pm
by camjr
Does someone have a picture of the different signs (Blue and Red) they can post? I want to make sure I'm looking at the right signs.
Re: 51% sign - question
Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:43 pm
by brian704
i am still new and still reading. i understand the 51% but what is this red and blue thing.
thanks
Re: 51% sign - question
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:48 am
by stash
If I am wrong someone will be along to correct me but I think the blue/red thing is the color of the TABC license. If a red license it is 51%, if blue more than 51% of their take comes from food.
Re: 51% sign - question
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:02 am
by pedalman
What it means is that the license will have a line of text on it:
Sign=Blue
OR
Sign=Red
Red means the sign to be posted will have a big red 51% on it: NO CARRY under CHL
Blue means the sign to be posted will have blue text saying, "The UNLICENSED possession of a handgun....": GOOD TO CARRY under CHL
Re: 51% sign - question
Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2009 10:03 am
by brian704
cool thank you very much sorry to hi jack
back on topic