TexasCHLforum.com

I used to bike/walk here. It's in a pretty nice area on the west side of Houston.

It could well be me there that night. Even if I were armed, and I have a CHL, that would have been a very scary experience.

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/ ... ccdae.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Cyclist shot in Terry Hershey Park


HOUSTON -- A cyclist was shot in Terry Hershey Park.

Houston police say a man was riding his bike in the park around 8 p.m. on Monday.

That's when he was approached by two robbers. Police say the man attempted to ride away when one of the suspects allegedly pulled out a gun and fired.

The victim was taken to the hospital by ambulance.

Officials say the bullet only grazed the man and he will be okay.

The two men involved in the attempted robbery are on the run.

I was listening to HPD's Westside radio system using my scanner as this unfolded tonight. It took them a lot longer than usual to respond since the park is so huge (for those of you not from around here, this park stretches between two major highways for about 11 miles), and since the location description was a bit vague. This really reminded me to be more aware of locations - to keep street names, and directions of travel in mind while at the park. What makes this even worse is that I spend a good amount of time at this park... was going to go today but decided to do something else instead. Good call.

This broaches an issue I've wondered about, but never mentioned.

Terry Hershey Park and Hike & Bike Trail is a Harris County Precinct 3 park (Steve Radack) that runs from the West Beltway west to Highway 6 and then north to I-10.

Just west of Highway 6 its hike & bike trail, which follows Buffalo Bayou, merges into the U.S. Army Core of Engineers (USACOE) Barker Dam Service Road and the "Hike & Bike Trail" around George Bush Park. A Harris County Precinct 3 park of 7,800 acres.

Therein lies my question.

Even though American Shooting Center sits just south of the Barker Reservoir Nature Preserve, it is technically on federal land controlled by the USACOE. I understand the American Shooting Center has obtained permission to be on federal land.

Where I'm glitchin' is how a CHL entering from the Terry Hershey hike & bike trail knows he or she is entering USACOE controlled land and needs to turn back if a firearm is being carried.

North and east of George Bush Park along North Eldridge Parkway, and bordered on the north by Clay Road, is Bear Creek Pioneers Park. This is another Harris County Precinct 3 park, 2,200 acres in size. It is also controlled by the USACOE.

These are Harris County parks (all Precinct 3, in fact), the county that receives many of my tax dollars every year. These parks represent 10,000 acres of my supposedly useable, recreational, county acreage.

However, even though I have a state-issued Concealed Handgun License, it isn't legal for me to carry a firearm while I walk, jog, or ride a bicycle in these county parks.

What's wrong with this picture?

So does that mean I can't CCW in Hermann park by the Houston Zoo?

Who says? you can carry in Terry Hershey park or any county park. The nature preserve on the other side of the levee is owned by the county. You can carry on city and county parks. I aks this question years ago and the answer was you can carry in Geo. Bush and Terry Hershey park. http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... f=7&t=1814" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Geo. Bush has a "No Firearms" sign but that is not a 30.06 and is not binding to CHLers. Terry Hershey has no sign at all regarding guns.

At this rate, I'm not going there without a gun. Too many remote spots.

Doug.38PR wrote:Who says? you can carry in Terry Hershey park or any county park. The nature preserve on the other side of the levee is owned by the county. You can carry on city and county parks. I aks this question years ago and the answer was you can carry in Geo. Bush and Terry Hershey park. http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... f=7&t=1814" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Geo. Bush has a "No Firearms" sign but that is not a 30.06 and is not binding to CHLers. Terry Hershey has no sign at all regarding guns.

Looking at that topic from 2006, I think what you failed to mention when you asked the question is that George Bush Park, to quote Harris County, "is part of a federally-owned reservoir and [is under] the priority of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers." Bear Creek Pioneers Park is likewise on federally-owned land. These are the only two county parks I'm aware of that sit on federally-owned land. Terry Hershey Park is not federal land. Even the Millie Bush Dog Park, right next to the south end of George Bush Park, is off the federal land.

This is not a county or state park issue, it's a federal land issue that falls under U.S. Code Title 18, not the Texas Penal Code. Federal property doesn't have to conform to 30.06 notification.

I'd love for Charles or another attorney to drop by and prove me wrong, 'cause I'd like to be able to go to those parks and not have to disarm to do it.

Skiprr,

Be advised that the whole of George Bush Park is on COE property. This includes the FFPS fields, ponds, dog park, pavilion area and hike/bike trail. The park is 7800 acres in size. George Bush Park and Bear Creek are both on COE property which would preclude carrying. You can carry in Terry Hershey Park up to the point where it crosses the levy and joins the trail in George Bush Park. The COE is not known to be flexible and does not have a sense of humor. I wouldn't want to be the test case.

Tass

So how do we transport our firearms to the American Shooting Center facility? On federal lands run by the Corps of Engineers, you cannot have any type of firearm, assembled or not.

Is there some sort of blanket waiver granted by the USCOE to the ASC?

You can legally carry unloaded firearms to a shooting range and also hunt where hunting is permitted:

§ 327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under § 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2001/ ... 327.13.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

§ 327.25 Violations of rules and regulations.
(a) Any person who violates the provisions of the regulations in this part,... may be punished
by a fine of not more than $5,000 or imprisonment for not more than six months or both and may be tried and sentenced in accordance with the provisions of section 3401 of Title 18, United States Code. Persons designated by the District Commander shall have the authority to issue a citation for violation of the regulations in this part,...

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2001/ ... 327.25.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is roughly equivalent to a class B misdemeanor.

Who are those persons, I wonder? I have never heard of federal officers patrolling parks of this type. (BTW, I have been to Bush Park and ASC, FWIW.)

- Jim

Tass wrote:Skiprr,

Be advised that the whole of George Bush Park is on COE property. This includes the FFPS fields, ponds, dog park, pavilion area and hike/bike trail. The park is 7800 acres in size. George Bush Park and Bear Creek are both on COE property which would preclude carrying. You can carry in Terry Hershey Park up to the point where it crosses the levy and joins the trail in George Bush Park. The COE is not known to be flexible and does not have a sense of humor. I wouldn't want to be the test case.

Tass, thanks for confirming what I said in my posts. It's always incumbent on us, as CHLs, to know where we're going and to confirm the appropriate laws.

BTW, I didn't think the federal land crossed Westheimer...but then, I've never located a good resource to show the exact boundaries of federally-owned land in Harris County. Since the Precinct 3 Website is explicit in describing George Bush Park and Bear Creek Park as federal lands, but does not do so for the Millie Bush Dog Park, south of Westheimer, I'd always thought it was on county property, not federal. But I never go there, so I never really investigated further.

Also, I'm not a member so have never looked into it, but I assume the Bayou Rifles membership range off Eldridge just north of Addicks Dam Road is also wholly on federal land. Anyone know for certain?

Now that we're talking about it, and to get really picky, don't stretches of Highway 6 and Eldridge Parkway run smack through the federal property? I certainly don't plan to disarm in order to drive the roads, but does anyone know what laws come into play here? Are the throughways, and a certain easement, not technically federal land? Inquiring minds want to know...

Skiprr wrote:Tass, thanks for confirming what I said in my posts. It's always incumbent on us, as CHLs, to know where we're going and to confirm the appropriate laws.

America still has the Bill of Rights in the Constitution, so I always comply with the supreme law of the land.

This is absurd, how can it be both Federal land and county land...the county controls it, it has county signs eveyrwhere, but eh corp built it....which laws apply? County or federal? Which tax dollars pay for it...I carry at the dog park all the time, spit on the COE (bunch of environmental liberal wackos) do they patrol the area? Who enforces what, this si screwy.


I wish the state of Texas and County of Harris would just nullify the wordIcan'tuse Federal government and their corp of treehuggers and say "Spit on you! Get the heck out of our parks and our business." Arrest and prosecute any govt' agent persecuting or harrasing citizens of the State of Texas

BTW, what's this "can't carry on federal lands" thing settled a few months back by the supreme court?

Okay I will stick to Hermann Park then ...

Doug.38PR wrote:This is absurd, how can it be both Federal land and county land...the county controls it, it has county signs eveyrwhere, but eh corp built it....which laws apply? County or federal? Which tax dollars pay for it...I carry at the dog park all the time, spit on the COE (bunch of environmental liberal wackos) do they patrol the area? Who enforces what, this si screwy.


I wish the state of Texas and County of Harris would just nullify the wordIcan'tuse Federal government and their corp of treehuggers and say "Spit on you! Get the heck out of our parks and our business." Arrest and prosecute any govt' agent persecuting or harrasing citizens of the State of Texas

BTW, what's this "can't carry on federal lands" thing settled a few months back by the supreme court?

As I understand it, it is back on hold due to failure to get some sort of environmental impact review.