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Idiots, reckless or otherwise, let us put those aside and let us discuss why those AD/ND do happen.

On an Semi-Auto, the things that lead to the Accident may include:
1) Chamber is empty, user fails to remove the magazine when trying to show clear and make safe.
2) Discharge using the trigger and or hammer when a decocker is available.
3) Tight confinement like being in bath room stall, or seated in a car.
4) Not following the safety rules, mainly pointing in a safe direction when manipulating a HG.
5) Being under influence of Drugs, Alcohol, or even Medications.
6) Sleepy
7) Dropping a loaded HG on the floor from the waist, especially when not using a holster.

Please add your factors that lead to AD/ND.

Putting finger on trigger and applying rearward pressure?

Because they're stupid idiots?

OK, real answer, complacency and inattention to what they are doing.

Because if I shoot myself on purpose, it hurts more, and you guys would laugh at me...

Beiruty wrote:Idiots, reckless or otherwise, let us put those aside and let us discuss why those AD/ND do happen.

On an Semi-Auto, the things that lead to the Accident may include:
1) Chamber is empty, user fails to remove the magazine when trying to show clear and make safe.
2) Discharge using the trigger and or hammer when a decocker is available.
3) Tight confinement like being in bath room stall, or seated in a car.
4) Not following the safety rules, mainly pointing in a safe direction when manipulating a HG.
5) Being under influence of Drugs, Alcohol, or even Medications.
6) Sleepy
7) Dropping a loaded HG on the floor from the waist, especially when not using a holster.

Please add your factors that lead to AD/ND.

I have a problem with the last one. While there are exceptions such as older revolvers and a few specialty pistols, modern handguns meant for use by military and police are drop-safe. This is one of the reasons we specifically tell people NOT to attempt to catch a falling gun. And while I certainly have heard/read many stories of falling 1911's discharging from the resulting impact, I have never seen it. I have seen many 1911s and other guns take a fall from waist height or greater and have yet to see one discharge as a result of the impact.

Several years ago, I heard one guy claim his Glock unintentionally discharge when dropped as he sat on the "throne of solitude." After a candid discussion, the "victim" admitted he'd been fiddling with said Glock when he dropped and attempted to catch the pistol. Apparently one or more of his booger hooks intercepted the trigger while the muzzle was parallel to the ground put pointed at his leg. The gun worked as advertised, sending a round through his leg and shattering the toilet he was sitting on. An embarrasing story to say the least but, this story was just another "it went off when I dropped it" story that everyone accepted without question. YMMV but, I would say that very few unintended discharged result from anything other than negligence on the part of the operator.

G.C.Montgomery wrote:...I have a problem with the last one. While there are exceptions such as older revolvers and a few specialty pistols, modern handguns meant for use by military and police are drop-safe...

Well, ever since they slacked off on making sidearms with lanyard loops I've had to tie my string through the trigger guard so I won't lose my gun when I'm riding my horse and it won't hit the ground and go off. But, I always worry that it's going to get around the trigger and pull it when the string gets hung up on some barbed wire whilst I'm mending fences.

I'm thinking maybe I should drill a hole through the sides of the barrel and run the lanyard through there, but then if I let the gun hang by it it'll probably be pointing up at me, and that seems a little unsafe.

Anybody have better suggestions?

Holster with a thumb break?

I have a problem with the "....Dropping a loaded HG on the floor from the waist..." part, too. I dropped my Glock from waist high on to my driveway once and nothing happened.

tfrazier wrote:Anybody have better suggestions?

Taurus PT-99? 1911 with an aftermarket mainspring housing? Better holster? Taller horse?

KD5NRH wrote:

tfrazier wrote:Anybody have better suggestions?

...Taller horse?

I was wondering if anyone was going to 'get it' or if everyone was just going to be all serious this Friday.

Because only DEA agents are trained well enough not to.

Oh, Wait...........

I had an first hand experience with dropping a HG. Some 20 yrs ago, in City nicknamed "The Jewel of the ME". A friend who was carrying his Tukarev in SOB with no holster dropped his HG and of course, the loaded gun discharged. I am not sure if the hammer was cooked or not, However, the bang was so loud as I was only couple feet away. I as well as my friend were lucky that no was hurt.

Maybe new modern HG are "Fall-to-ground" safe.

Beiruty wrote:...not sure if the hammer was cooked or not...

Cooked hammers are generally too tender to dent a primer.

Keith B wrote:
OK, real answer, complacency and inattention to what they are doing.

Bingo. I would phrase it as "a lack of focus on what one is doing." When you are administratively handling the gun, that should be the ONLY thing you are thinking of, until you get it holstered, put away, or otherwise get it in a state of "not handling it anymore."

One AD I attended to as a first-responder was an acquaintance who was in a hurry to get to work. He shoved a Kahr .40 in the same pocket that contained a knife, the trigger encountered the knife, and bang, in his upper thigh, along the bone, and out above the knee. (Interestingly, he first thought he had just put a hole in his pocket; it wasn't until he picked the bullet up off the floor and noticed it was expanded that he realized he had shot himself).


People get in a hurry, complacent, talking to someone, tired, all-of-the-above, and BANG. Or sometimes, BANG-BANG.

G.C.Montgomery wrote:
...Several years ago, I heard one guy claim his Glock unintentionally discharge when dropped as he sat on the "throne of solitude." After a candid discussion, the "victim" admitted he'd been fiddling with said Glock when he dropped and attempted to catch the pistol...

Probably two years ago now a police officer in San Antonio was visiting a school for some non-police thing -- parent-teacher conferences or somesuch. He managed to discharge his pistol TWICE in a bathroom stall. I would make a substantial bet that he dropped the pistol while fumbling with his pants, made a grab to catch it --- and succeeded. The first bang probably startled him so much that he reflexively squeezed again... and bang.

I think the common thread in all three of these is the people handling the guns forgot to focus on the fact that it was, in fact, a GUN they were handling. Even the guy on the throne, "fiddling" with his Glock, really wasn't focused on the reality of the gun(i.e. a piece of machinery that will send a bullet whichever way it is pointed when he pulls the trigger), he was focused on whiling away the time by "fiddling." Good reason to keep magazines (the type you read) in the john!

A series of violations of the 4 gun safety rules.