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And I still maintain that the way to get our point across is not to murder abortionists or blow up buildings.

I resent the implications that she is calling us to reign in those who would do such things...

I know of no one, nor would I tolerate the existance of a person who would espouse such activity in our community...

People who do such things are not amoung anyone I know of here, or elsewhere, and should not be implied that they are part of any group or community, that the only common thread is the ownership or possession of firearms...

As well meaning as her article is here, I dissagree with her on this...

I do agree that we have the responsibility to exercise every means available in our political process (which still works, dispite the liberal/socialist trend prevalent now) to protect our individual, unalienable and moral right to keep and bear arms as we see fit...

I am actually ashamed that this is even a problem...Our founding fathers would be turning over in their graves at how bad this and other issues have been usurped and diminished over time by those that are even more of a challenge to our freedoms than the British ever were or could be...

Those framers, those we agree with, and those that dissagreed with the details within our system, they finally came to and agreement and put together a system that everyone could live with...They put their differences aside and proved to the people that this can work if we all stay vigilant, and protect the system from minimalization, progressive liberal idealogs, and always remember that their existence as an elected officials was at the mercy of the people who elected them...

Today there is no fear that anyone has who obtains these positions...

That is what needs to change...And every two years we get to exercise "change"...

I will actually strive to make some people here mad at me for pointing this stuff out at every single opportunity I have to do so...I don't mind, because if you are angry at me for doing so, and you are ready to pounce when the polls open every single time they do, just to prove me wrong, or believe it will shut me up...So be it...

Some people might believe it may save ammo...Right???

I dislike the term "revolution". It implies radicalism and extremism. Something that just doesn't work in today's society.

The terms we should be using is "vote for change....at the ballot box", or "exercise your rights as a citizen by voting your preferences".

While I, quite enthusiastically, agree with you on getting the thing going, Steve, I disagree with what I think is your interpretation of what she said about the killing of abortionists.

I don't feel that she is calling on us to reign in those nuts who do such things, and I catagorize them right beside school massacre perpetrators, what it seem to me that she is saying is that these little acts of terrorism do nothing to advance our cause.

Yes, the time to commit to a true revolution appears to be upon us, and may already be underway even if too subtlely to notice yet, and the revolution still has a chance to remain peaceful too. I see more and more indications of dissatisfaction every day, people wearing "n0bama" t-shirts and the change bumper stickers obviously removed in disgust, so I am holding out the hope that we may not have to go to war against our neighbors to win back our freedoms, but I remain well armed all the same.

jimlongley wrote:While I, quite enthusiastically, agree with you on getting the thing going, Steve, I disagree with what I think is your interpretation of what she said about the killing of abortionists.

I don't feel that she is calling on us to reign in those nuts who do such things, and I catagorize them right beside school massacre perpetrators, what it seem to me that she is saying is that these little acts of terrorism do nothing to advance our cause.

Yes, the time to commit to a true revolution appears to be upon us, and may already be underway even if too subtlely to notice yet, and the revolution still has a chance to remain peaceful too. I see more and more indications of dissatisfaction every day, people wearing "n0bama" t-shirts and the change bumper stickers obviously removed in disgust, so I am holding out the hope that we may not have to go to war against our neighbors to win back our freedoms, but I remain well armed all the same.

Well we agree on most things, and maybe I wasn't totally clear on my position...That's cool even if after all of this we still don't agree...

I was trying to say that it should not be put upon those of us to reign in those people who's only comparison is the fact that they own or posess guns...And commit crimes like this...It is not your's or my responsibility to do that...Yes we have some legal parameters in the law to intervene in certain "direct" cases...But that is a rarity...

I can say that I am extremely "pro-life", and that abortion should not be used as a form of birth control...By the time conception is achieved, that is a life, and it should be protected at all cost, but not to the means to which this goober took it to...

If you want to argue about being pro-choice, fine...#1 its not the babies fault...And a WHOLE bunch of choices were made before that life was created and BOOM you have a child coming as a result of ALL those choices to have unprotected intercourse...

Someone, like the author here, who pushes the responsibility to us, in some way, shape, form, or fashion in my opinion is wrong...

People who commit crimes like this do not hang out and talk shop like we do here...If I and others knew that someone were a little radical in their views regarding abortion, I and many others would step in and counsel those who chat about their views and ideas that espouse criminal activity...At the very least...

Additionally, I want to be clear that our political system still works...And that if we do not get out, and encourage others to get out everytime that poll in our precinct opens, then you should be ashamed (this is where I think people will hate me )...

That is where we will win every single time regardless of the outcome...And regardless of whom a citizen votes for...

The time to bear arms to change things is when we have ALL failed...And even if we think we are prepared for that, we will ALL lose...No matter how many guns, beans and bullets we have...

Off the soapbox...

WOLVERINES!

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Y'all knew this was coming...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/edi ... 78673.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Got to go drop this off on the other thread that this applies to...

So when's the revolution? Will it be when we can't take it anymore? Will it be when brave men and women come forward to lead it? How the heck should I know?

My hope is for something like in Unintended Consequences, where some event galvanizes individuals to strike individual blows against constitutional enemies. both foreign and domestic, in a very unorganized, true grassroots way.

Like supersaturation where a seed triggers separation, except in this case the precipitate is the solution.

I fully expect that something is going to happen soon. I firmly believe that the only way we will survive as a great nation is to adhere – strictly – to our founding documents. But there are nonviolent methods that must be tried first.

Been there. Done that. What's next?

What I believe is going to happen...Absolutely nothing...And we had all better hope that is true...

If we can prove that we can get it done within the system, and come this November start the message we need to send to those we elect, that they are the problem, and that they do not have a solution, except they need to listen to us and stop the downward direction in economic, social and national security policies...

That is what we need to concentrate on...We all know what we can do otherwise...

stevie_d_64 wrote:What I believe is going to happen...Absolutely nothing...And we had all better hope that is true...

If we can prove that we can get it done within the system, and come this November start the message we need to send to those we elect, that they are the problem, and that they do not have a solution, except they need to listen to us and stop the downward direction in economic, social and national security policies...

That is what we need to concentrate on...We all know what we can do otherwise...

Well put stevie, and

The change will come at the ballot box. Anything else is anarchy.

joe817 wrote:I dislike the term "revolution". It implies radicalism and extremism. Something that just doesn't work in today's society.

The terms we should be using is "vote for change....at the ballot box", or "exercise your rights as a citizen by voting your preferences".

I grew up in 50s and 60s. I was brought up to believe that freedom is worth sacrifice. I learned socialism was evil and that Revolution against oppressive socialist regimes is a good thing. I believed it then, and I was expected to go fight and possibly sacrifice my life to destroy the socialist. The government I was taught to respect has changed. Things have changed. I haven't got more radical or extreme. My government has.

Now I don't know that we should be doing armed assaults on our government, but whether its a tax revolt, a revolution at the polls, or eventually are full civil war something will has to give. I can't see the freedom loving people yielding to the Marxist forever. Something has to change.

Who are the extremist?
Those who go and peacefully go to tea partys to speak out against unbridled government spending.
or
Those who call us Teabagginging racist?

maybe?
Those who hunt and own guns to protect themselves,
or those who claim folks cling to these things because their lives are empty?

perhaps?
Those who believe that private property and bussiness are to be owned by the people who invest in the business?
or
That confiscate businesses because the Government knows best.

Could it be?
Those that fought for our country, many which fought against socialist regimes.
or
Those who advise keeping a closer eye on these folks, because they are the real terrorist. Not the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay Who have already killed Americans.

Who is the Radical extremist? Just thinking ...

Well said.

I was listening to reports today about how our Commander in Chief was "deeply troubled" about the violence in Iran. From FoxNews.com:

"I do believe that something has happened in Iran," with Iranians more willing to question the government's "antagonistic postures" toward the world, Obama said.

"There are people who want to see greater openness, greater debate, greater democracy," he said during a Rose Garden news conference.

But when it's someone questioning his policies, you get that smug I'm-better-and-smarter-than-you-are smile and something like this (along with gleeful laughter from the audience):

"Those of you who are watching certain news channels on which I'm not very popular, and you see folks waving tea bags around, Obama said, “let me just remind them that I am happy to have a serious conversation about how we are going to cut our health care costs down over the long term, how we are going to stabilize Social Security.”

So it's apologizing for America, and then saying that the people of Iran want greater democracy, but you're an idiot if you don't like my policies.

Liberty wrote:

joe817 wrote:I dislike the term "revolution". It implies radicalism and extremism. Something that just doesn't work in today's society.

The terms we should be using is "vote for change....at the ballot box", or "exercise your rights as a citizen by voting your preferences".

I grew up in 50s and 60s. I was brought up to believe that freedom is worth sacrifice. I learned socialism was evil and that Revolution against oppressive socialist regimes is a good thing. I believed it then, and I was expected to go fight and possibly sacrifice my life to destroy the socialist. The government I was taught to respect has changed. Things have changed. I haven't got more radical or extreme. My government has.

So did I. I remember the protest marches of the conscientious objectors of the Korean War. I remember in the 60's where revolution, socialism and communism were synonymous. One in the same. That's what I was taught by my military science professor at TCU in 1968.

But most of all, I remember the "revolution" that occured here in America. I remember the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968, where I saw American policemen from Chicago, beating American protesters outside the national convention. "Peace protestors" as it may be. Fighting for what they believed in. Americans beating Americans. It disturbed me greatly.


"Now I don't know that we should be doing armed assaults on our government, but whether its a tax revolt, a revolution at the polls, or eventually are full civil war something will has to give. I can't see the freedom loving people yielding to the Marxist forever. Something has to change. "

I do. I know we shouldn't be doing armed assults, or a tax revolt. There will be no revolution at the polls. There will be peaceful, orderly transfer of power. As it should be.

"Who are the extremist?
Those who go and peacefully go to tea partys to speak out against unbridled government spending.
or
Those who call us Teabagginging racist?"

Who has called you a Teabagging racist?? Certainly not I.

maybe?
Those who hunt and own guns to protect themselves,
or those who claim folks cling to these things because their lives are empty?

perhaps?
Those who believe that private property and bussiness are to be owned by the people who invest in the business?
or
That confiscate businesses because the Government knows best.

Could it be?
Those that fought for our country, many which fought against socialist regimes.
or
Those who advise keeping a closer eye on these folks, because they are the real terrorist. Not the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay Who have already killed Americans.

"Who is the Radical extremist? Just thinking ...[/quote]"

Not I, for I do not support violent overthrow, just because we do not currently support who ever is in office at this moment, or this term. That will change, I assure you.....it always has...always will. That will be America expressing its voice at the ballot box.....peaceful, non-violent, non-radical means. I've seen it many times in my life, and I will see it many times more.

joe817 wrote:
Not I, for I do not support violent overthrow, just because we do not currently support who ever is in office at this moment, or this term. That will change, I assure you.....it always has...always will. That will be America expressing its voice at the ballot box.....peaceful, non-violent, non-radical means. I've seen it many times in my life, and I will see it many times more.

WE are a young country. I don't believe the time is yet ripe, but I know where we are headed. I believe that freedom, is worth fighting for. We have the freedoms only because patriots and war heros were willing to leave the comfort and security of their own homes and were willing to get involved, willing to take a stand against an oppressive government. At some point men of character will decide whether our government is of the people and for the people, or whether it is about the ruling class for the ruling class.

BTW Even though I served in the military. I believe that many of those who took up arms in the 60s were right.
The draft is a form of indentured slavery it was wrong.
Institututionized segregated America was wrong.
Conservatives might not have liked it. It was an small violent war, but the revolutionist won. The radicalism and violence worked.
We have the civil rights amendment, the draft is gone and we bailed out of Viet Nam. Our government took a left turn which we never recovered.
The Obamanites know we are mostly a peace loving people. They know we will be slow to take our rights back. They know they must work feverishly to accomplish their goals, before the mighty giant is awakened.