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Question: There is a grill i goto that is borderline 51%. The owner says they are 51%, but I got a verbal OK from him to carry there (we are good friends). Is that enough to legally carry there, or is it "playing with fire"?

keyframe wrote:Question: There is a grill i goto that is borderline 51%. The owner says they are 51%, but I got a verbal OK from him to carry there (we are good friends). Is that enough to legally carry there, or is it "playing with fire"?

IANAL, but AFAIK there is no way for the owner to legally give you permission to carry under authority of your CHL in a 51% establishment. You can look at their liquor license, and if it says Sign=Red, then they are 51%, if it says Sign=Blue, then they are NOT 51% and you can carry there legally. If they are 51%, then there should be a 51% sign posted per the TABC laws.

No. Absolutely not.

Didn't think so. Thanks for the replys.

My CHL instructor specifically addressed this issue, and he said that if you have the owner's consent, that you WERE allowed to carry into a 51% establishment. I remember a case recently in South Texas where the owner shot a gang of men trying to rob the place, but it was his bar and he shot them with a shot gun. I would ask our resident TABC Steve for his opinion, but my CHL instructor said it was allowed.

He also said that you better know the owner pretty well and trust his word, possibly even get it in writing, bc if the stuff hits the fan, alot of time agreements like these are "forgotten" and the owner suddenly has no idea what you are talking about. Especially with pressure from a PD or TABC about why a guy was carrying in his establishment.

DrinkRaiderade wrote:My CHL instructor specifically addressed this issue, and he said that if you have the owner's consent, that you WERE allowed to carry into a 51% establishment. I remember a case recently in South Texas where the owner shot a gang of men trying to rob the place, but it was his bar and he shot them with a shot gun. I would ask our resident TABC Steve for his opinion, but my CHL instructor said it was allowed.

He also said that you better know the owner pretty well and trust his word, possibly even get it in writing, bc if the stuff hits the fan, alot of time agreements like these are "forgotten" and the owner suddenly has no idea what you are talking about. Especially with pressure from a PD or TABC about why a guy was carrying in his establishment.

that's the key, there.

course, if they don't have a sign, you have a "defense to prosecution" agains being charge with UCW in a 51% establishment.

I believe the owner or the bartender in charge can have a weapon in the bar, but as I stated, I don't believe the owner can give permission for you to carry under the general authority of your CHL.

The owner could give permission to other employees, though, right?

C-dub wrote:The owner could give permission to other employees, though, right?

Not necessarily. Chapter 46.15 (b) 8 says: Chapter 46.02 [carrying a firearm] does not apply to a person who: Holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises.

So, only the person who is currently supervising the location is allowed to carry. If you ain't the big boss over the facility at the time, then you can't be carrying.

Again, I am not a lawyer, but that is my interpretation.

The owner can legally give you permission to carry in a 51% bar only one way - i fhe makes you an employee. The trick is to understand that the Penal Code says the licensee is exempt and the Alcoholic Beverage Code defines the licensee as the actual person or any of his agents/employees.

So, if you are an agent of the licensee, you can legally carry. You really need to be able to document it, as was suggested. You do not need to be a PAID employee, but you do need to have some type of legally binding employer/agent relationship. And, obviously, this cannot be for you to provide security unless you are uniformed and licensed under the security officer system.

So, if the owner as a friend says he doesn't mind if you carry, you are breaking the law. You will probably not get caught or in trouble since there would be no owner calling the police, but think about the other ways to get caught (especially the need to carry coming into play) and the police getting there for some other reason.

That's where I was headed.