TexasCHLforum.com

Hello all. I am very impressed with amount of knowledge you guys have, so I want to shoot a question by you guys and see if anyone can give me a definite answer.
I own a bar, which is a red sign 51% establishment. It is a really calm place, mostly older guys, and we never have any problems, but I would like my manager to have access to a firearm in case of trouble. I have a CHL, but prior to getting it, I talked to my TABC officer about it during one of his inspections. He told me that he was not 100% certain of that exact law, but said his understanding was that I could carry a weapon, with or without a CHL. According to him, I am the building owner and my name is on the liquor license, so I am good to carry on the premises, with or without a CHL.
He said that he did not think that Managers could carry, regardless of whether they have a CHL or not. The place is a 51% establishment, so to carry, he was under the belief that your name had to be on the liquor license.
When I took my CHL class, I asked my instructor the exact question. My instructor said that was not correct. He was under the belief that, just as the TABC officer told me, I was good to go regardless of the CHL. He said that I could authorize the manager on duty to carry or have access to a firearm, though he did recommend that they get a CHL. I have a very responsible manager who is a retired customs agent, so he has military and law enforcement experience. I have not asked him about carrying, because I want to make sure I understand the legal implications. (who knows, he is probably carrying anyway and this may be a moot point!) I feel that it would greatly increase the safety of our patrons if he were allowed to carry.
Two very different answers from two supposedly informed guys. Right now I am following the instructions given by my TABC officer. Does anyone have any legal opinions?

Thanks in advance
Karder

The relevant portion of the law is Texas Penal Code Section 46.15:

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(8) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises

The way I read this is that you (the license holder) or the person you designate to supervise the bar (your manager) can legally carry there.

In addition, your manager may qualify under the exception for retired law enforcement:

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
(a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:
(5) an honorably retired peace officer or federal criminal investigator who holds a certificate of proficiency issued under Section 1701.357, Occupations Code, and is carrying a photo identification that:
(A) verifies that the officer honorably retired after not less than 15 years of service as a commissioned officer; and
(B) is issued by a state or local law enforcement agency;

karder wrote:Hello all. I am very impressed with amount of knowledge you guys have, so I want to shoot a question by you guys and see if anyone can give me a definite answer.
I own a bar, which is a red sign 51% establishment. It is a really calm place, mostly older guys, and we never have any problems, but I would like my manager to have access to a firearm in case of trouble. I have a CHL, but prior to getting it, I talked to my TABC officer about it during one of his inspections. He told me that he was not 100% certain of that exact law, but said his understanding was that I could carry a weapon, with or without a CHL. According to him, I am the building owner and my name is on the liquor license, so I am good to carry on the premises, with or without a CHL.
He said that he did not think that Managers could carry, regardless of whether they have a CHL or not. The place is a 51% establishment, so to carry, he was under the belief that your name had to be on the liquor license.
When I took my CHL class, I asked my instructor the exact question. My instructor said that was not correct. He was under the belief that, just as the TABC officer told me, I was good to go regardless of the CHL. He said that I could authorize the manager on duty to carry or have access to a firearm, though he did recommend that they get a CHL. I have a very responsible manager who is a retired customs agent, so he has military and law enforcement experience. I have not asked him about carrying, because I want to make sure I understand the legal implications. (who knows, he is probably carrying anyway and this may be a moot point!) I feel that it would greatly increase the safety of our patrons if he were allowed to carry.
Two very different answers from two supposedly informed guys. Right now I am following the instructions given by my TABC officer. Does anyone have any legal opinions?

Thanks in advance
Karder

The above highlighted section is exactly correct.

I don't have a reference, and if someone doesnt beat me to it, I'll come back and post it, but the law authorizes the person in charge at a Bar to legally carry as part of his duties. No CHL Required.

EDIT: Gah! I got Ninja'd! Lol, well, there's your answer above!

In addition to what has been posted already, there is one other section of the law you need to be aware of. Alcoholic Beverage Code Section 1.04 says '(11) "Permittee" means a person who is the holder of a permit provided for in this code, or an agent, servant, or employee of that person.'

So, anything that the person named on the license can do can also be done by any employee. This, combined with the quoted section of 46.15 about the manager is what specifically allows your shift manager to carry a weapon without a CHL. Section 61.71(f)(3) also says the rules on carrying do not apply to your manager.

So, I would only caution you to check with your liability insurance for their knowledge or rules before you let him carry.

Thanks guys. This helps a lot. The liability issue is an excellent point. I wish they would change the law and let CHL carriers on the premises. I heard they were in the process of doing that in Tennessee. If they ever do, I am going to put up a "Welcome CHL Holders" sign in plain view. I appreciate all your input!

Karder