TexasCHLforum.com

As I read here about the difficulty to obtain the permits or licence to possess fully automatic weapons, I'm wondering about my dad's weapons. I think he has at least one full-auto, maybe an AK. He and my mom have said that I will get all of his weapons when he passes, which thankfully BTW doesn't seem to be any time soon. However, when he does what do I need to do to legally take possession of a full-auto weapon if there is one? He does not live in Texas if that makes a difference.

This is certainly a "lawyer" question. One place that you might like to start is here:

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/states/texas/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This lawyer has apparently put together a network of lawyers that deal with using trusts to aid in legal ownership of NFA weapons. One of the issues he mentions at his website and blog is legally handling NFA firearms after the death of the owner. Altho he is from Florida, his network seems to cover a number of states, including Texas, and says he can put you in touch with a Texas lawyer skilled in NFA laws.

I have no idea if this guy knows what he is talking about, never dealt with him, etc etc, it's just something I ran across some time ago when looking up the details of NFA ownership. He has been at it for awhile, and I notice that the states his network covers has expanded from Florida and Texas to about 7 or 8 now. The link is to the Texas section.

Good idea to pre-plan this one. Not a pleasant task, to plan for one's parent's demise, but it can save you some serious legal trouble when it comes to NFA weapons, I think.

Good luck.

Thanks. I guess I'll be having a little more in-depth talk with my dad the next time I'm up there.

If there are no NFA weapons my mom could just give me everything else, right?

Best check with a knowledgable atty-- about both the NFA firearms and the inheritance parts. It sounds simple, but can easily become complex and $$$ in taxes.

When my father passed away, he had about 80% of his affairs in good order (from a tax standpoiint). The remaining 20 % he just "didn't get around to...." took a good deal of time and cost a fair amt in taxes.

Piney wrote:Best check with a knowledgable atty-- about both the NFA firearms and the inheritance parts. It sounds simple, but can easily become complex and $$$ in taxes.

IANAL, but aside from NFA considerations, I see no actual tax issues with an uncontested inheritance (e.g., one heir or multiple heirs that can sort things out themselves - privately) over easily portable items that do not require titles, deeds, or registration with .gov.

NFA weapons will transfer tax free on a Form 5 to the heir. You still have to jump through hoops of fingerprints and the CLEO sign off for where you live, if it is not left to a corporation or a trust. Check here for the form http://www.titleii.com/pdf/010205-Form5.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; While it is not overly complicated it is best to check with an attorney that has experience with NFA weapons when dealing with them. An AK-47, depending in if it is amnesty registered or not, can bring a premium price. Right now it the NFA market is a little soft due to the economy.

Thanks very much everyone. I really need to talk with my dad about this so we're both on the same page with each other. He's kind of the quiet type when it comes to personal matters, but he's loosened up a little in the last couple of years.

IANAL, but in looking at the NFA itself, I came upon this: "Change of Ownership

§ 179.42 Changes through death of owner.

Whenever any person who has paid special (occupational) tax dies, the surviving spouse or child, or executors or administrators, or other legal representatives, may carry on this business for the remainder of the term for which tax has been paid and at the place (or places) for which the tax was paid, without any additional payment, subject to the following conditions. If the surviving spouse or child, or executor or administrator, or other legal representative of the deceased taxpayer continues the business, such person shall, within 30 days after the date on which the successor begins to carry on the business, file a new return, Form 5630.5, with ATF in accordance with the instructions on the form. The return thus executed shall show the name of the original taxpayer, together with the basis of the succession. (As to liability in case of failure to register, see § 179.49.)

[T.D. ATF-70, 45 FR 33979, May 21, 1980, as amended by T.D. ATF-251, 52 FR 19334, May 22, 1987]"

Although the statue refers to a 'business', IMO it pertains to an individual also. Again I'm no attorney.

In further reading, I find:

"There is no tax on a transfer to a lawful heir from the owner's estate. Lawful heir just means someone named in a will to get the weapons, or a person entitled to inherit under the applicable intestacy laws if there was no will, or the will did not apply. The heir must be able to own the weapon under state and federal laws. The heir will have to do all the other steps of a transfer to an individual, except that recently ATF has said they would not require the LE certification. Unless the heir is also a class 3 SOT he may not inherit pre-86 NFA firearms or post-86 machine guns (and would also need the police demo letter for the post-86 machine guns, see below). A weapon to an heir may also be transferred interstate directly to the heir, if need be; the gun need not be transferred to a dealer in the heir's state, if the deceased owner resided in another state."

Source: http://www.titleii.com/BardwellOLD/nfa_faq.txt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope this helps. I know nothing about the formalities of purchasing full auto guns, silencers, etc.

That sounds great Joe, but let me check my legalese-English translation skills.

I won't need the letter from the local police?
I won't pay any taxes to take possession of the weapons?
I can just transport the weapons back home in my truck?

What's the part about pre-86 NFA or post-86 machine guns mean?

C-Dub, now don't get me to lying! But the way I read it(and I could be wrong), is that you DO have to pay the transfer tax on it, as the "stamp" is non-transferable(I'm assuming).

Might do to talk in depth to a dealer in full auto guns. That'd be my best suggestion.

IIRC, 1986 was when our beloved Congress of these United States decided that machine guns were too dangerous for the citizenry, and forbade transferring any machine gun manufactured after that time to a private individual (as opposed to military or police). Machine guns manufactured prior to that date were/are still legal for citizens to own -- that's partly why they cost so dang much, there are a fixed number available, and every time the ATF finds a way to seize one, the number gets smaller.

WRT the NFA stuff, this really is an area I recommend hiring an attorney for, at least for yourself, whether your dad is agreeable or not. YOU need to know the fine points, since you will be the one receiving them, and I don't think you can get it all just by reading the statutes. The consequences for getting it wrong are very high. I don't know if the link I posted earlier will provide what you want, but I would definitely find some lawyer - maybe ask the NFA dealers who they recommend. I would NOT just go by what dealers tell you -- they won't be representing you in court if they are wrong or leave something out or you just don't understand them properly.

joe817 wrote:C-Dub, now don't get me to lying! But the way I read it(and I could be wrong), is that you DO have to pay the transfer tax on it, as the "stamp" is non-transferable(I'm assuming).

Might do to talk in depth to a dealer in full auto guns. That'd be my best suggestion.

I wouldn't do that at all, but the first sentence says "There is no tax on a transfer to a lawful heir from the owner's estate."

Thanks a bunch guys for getting me going down the right path. After I talk with him about all this I'll let you know if he even has any of these weapons.

Please do C-Dub. I'd like to know the outcome.

I finally found someone in another forum who has used the lawyer (whose name is Goldman) who has the guntrustlawyer.com website I linked above. The poster is himself a San Antonio lawyer who now who now apparently works with Goldman on this.

The thread is here: http://warriortalk.com/showthread.php?t=61609" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Look for poster "ScottT."

A couple of the posters note that they have NFA trusts set up so that when their under-age children reach 21, they are automatically added to the trust (and thus have legal access to the NFA arms) without doing any further paperwork or fees. I think this particular case is not an issue for C-dub, but it may be handy for others. Additionally, trusts let multiple people have legal access to the NFA items, and can be changed by the owner without going through the government or the local CLEO. A trust with multiple access arrangement also removes the possibility that people living in your house could be charged with illegal possession -- e.g. if you a register an NFA item as an individual and put it in the safe that your spouse has the combo to -- or that the ATF claims your spouse the combo to.

And yes, if you don't mind I'd like to hear the outcome, especially if you go the trust route.