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I've test fired the Kel-Tec P3AT. It is a very surprising gun. It has a surprisingly high amount of recoil. It has the most recoil of any auto pistol that I've ever shot! I think that it's because it is so lightweight that there is very little mass and inertia to counter the force of the bullet. The trigger is heavy and jerky. If I were to rapid fire it, the gun would only be accurate to FIVE (5) feet! It is only accurate if you slowly squeeze the trigger. WIth rapid fire, expect 14 inch groups at 5 feet. Slow shooting with Speer Gold Dots at 7 yards, expect 2.5 inch groups 1 inch towards 7 to 8 o'clock from point of aim. Slow shooting with Aguila FMJ, expect 4.5 inch groups at 7 yards, groups 1 inch towards 7 o'clock from point of aim.

For a control, to make sure that it's not my shooting technique that's at fault, I shot a BB gun. The 200 fps BB gun shot 1 inch groups at 7 yards, groups 1 inch towards 11 o'clock from point of aim.

If you were to practice a lot to gain better trigger control, this would be a fine self-defense gun. However, the gun has so much recoil that my wrist hurt, my thumb felt like it was dislocated, and I had callouses after shooting only TWENTY rounds! So, unless you are impervious to pain, it would be impossible to shoot enough with this gun to gain proficiency with it. Also, I read on another forum that Kelgren of Kel-Tec says that the gun is only designed to shoot 5000 rounds reliably.

I would only recommend this as a BUG or a gun when your clothing doesn't allow anything bigger since this is a very small gun.

I used to have reliability problems with the Kel-Tecs, even after the "fluff and buff" (see the Kel-Tec owner's site). However, a very easy way to make the Kel-Tecs 100% reliable without the troublesome "fluff and buff" is to simply oil the feed ramp with plenty of breakfree CLP (or some other low viscosity gun oil). I also carefully applied with a rag a bit of Breakfree CLP to the tips of the bullets, too. Careful not to use too much oil so that the gunpowder gets contaminated with oil. Using this technique, I did not have any jams due to the gun. I had 1 jam due to operator error. I accidentally nudged the mag release. The take-down pin also came loose a bit during firing, but not enough to dislodge.

This brings us to the Ruger LCP. It has an indented magazine catch release to avoid this type of malfunction. It also has a slide hold-open, which the Kel-Tec did not. The action and trigger are also a tad smoother than the Kel-Tec. It also does not jam if you neglect to slather a generous helping of oil on the feed ramp. The Kel-Tec WILL jam unless the feed ramp is well oiled.

Conclusion: When oiled properly, the Kel-Tec is a fine back-up gun that is inexpensive. If you use it as a primary carry gun, keep in mind that if you jerk the trigger during the stress of a gunfight, you should only count on it to hit a man-sized target at 5 feet. Most robberies and car jackings happen at close range, so although this gun is not ideal, this is an adequate gun.

P.S. Stay tuned for a future review of the Ruger LCP.
P.P.S. So far, this is my favorite carry pistol. However, I have not had the pleasure of test firing a Ruger LCP yet (my friend hogged it during this trip to the range). In my upcoming review, I will let you know how the Kel-Tec P3AT compares to the Ruger LCP.

When I saw the title of the thread my first though was that you were going to tell us to unload it and use it for a paper weight.

03Lightningrocks wrote:When I saw the title of the thread my first though was that you were going to tell us to unload it and use it for a paper weight.

OMG !

My solution to the Kel-tec problems was to trade it in on a LCP! This was after I paid a gunsmith to "tweak" it and then read a really harsh post about Kel-tech on this very forum. I had sold it to a friend but gave him his money back after reading the thread.
When the LCP came out I stopped at Carter's Country and they had one (only one) in stock. (This was when there were waiting lists for the Ruger.)
So lusting was I for the LCP I traded in the Kel-tec. That Kel-tec sat in the used counter for months! I should have put it on layaway, because when I finally had the "extra" cash I decided that since I was the only one that knew of the secret gun smith treatment work and nobody wanted it, I thought I could at least talk them down on the price. Rodger the salesman told me they had finally sold it the week prior. Doh!
So if you purchased from Carter's country on the Katy Frwy. a used black over green Kel-tec with the side pocket clip and a really shiney feed ramp, rest assured you got a bargain!
You can imagine how thrilled I was when the LCP recall notices started rolling in.

LCP has a much better quality level than the P3AT, although the price is higher...plus you get an internal ejector rather than external as on the P3AT. Too, the slide will lock open on the LCP (though not automatically at the end of a mag). The new Taurus TCP has both beat, I believe. The Taurus DOES lock open at the end of a mag. Quality level even better, and a little cheaper than a LCP. One should consider putting the Hogue Handall jr grip on any of these to absorb some of the punch. You can only overcome physics so much. Small gun, lightweight, relatively heavy load. For ammo, check out the Hornady personal defense rounds....rubber nose for maximum expansion.

Doc, I am happy to report that my experience differed from yours. Got an FTF and an FTE out of the box, and concluded I wasn't holding it properly to avoid flipping up too much. Wrapped the weak hand as far around the strong as possible while still pushing the weak thumb hard against the frame. Pulled the elbows into the chest. No further troubles. I practice at 25 yards and can put them all into the torso somewhere. Not blam blam blam, but fairly quick shots. As it is the lightest of all 380's, I carry it when I don't feel I can avoid printing my PF-9 in what I am wearing. I have an LCP also, BTW. It is so purty I don't want to shoot it. Just keep it forever. But both were quite a shock after shooting an AMT 380 Backup for years.

I have a P3AT which I haven't fired since the price of .380 went through the roof. Even so, I had pretty much stopped carrying it. I haven't actually pocketed the thing in almost a year. Part of the problem is that, because I am left handed, the pistol pockets with the mag release button facing outward. On a number of occasions, I removed the pistol from my pocket, in its Nemesis holster, to find that the mag release button had been depressed at some point during the day, releasing the magazine enough that it would have dropped out of the gun upon drawing it.

I actually don't have any complaints about the trigger. It's a long pull, but it isn't that stiff at all. Compared to the pull on my 642 trigger, it's actually pretty light. I wasn't so bothered by the recoil itself as I was by the fact that the trigger guard smacks my index finger pretty hard each time the gun fires. Accuracy is not great, but certainly adequate for what the gun is designed to be. As far as reliability, I've only shot about 100 rounds through mine. I think I might have had one FTF early on, but I don't recall any repeated reliability issues.

In any case, I don't carry it any longer, partly because of the magazine release issue mentioned above, and partly because almost any situation in which the P3AT makes sense, my 642 is a better, more reliable, and more powerful choice. In fact, I'm probably going to sell my Keltec unless my wife or son wants it.

I'm on my 2nd Keltec. Never a problem with it right out of the box.
Bought a LCP and carried that just because it was prettier. No failures on that either.
Since then I've bought a P238, which I much orefer, but there are still times when one of the DAO tupperware pistols suits the occasion better.

Firing the P3AT has been described as like trying to hold onto an exploding credit card.

casingpoint wrote:Firing the P3AT has been described as like trying to hold onto an exploding credit card.

That's not far from the truth!

03Lightningrocks wrote:When I saw the title of the thread my first though was that you were going to tell us to unload it and use it for a paper weight.

+1 For consistency

Yeah,

I know, the price of ammo has gone through the roof! That's why I practice with a BB gun. They sell BB guns that are almost just like the real thing. I have a Glock 19 BB gun that has a slide hold-open, magazine release, slide, realistic action, and heavy realistic weight. It even field strips like a real Glock. I almost cannot tell the difference.

As a matter of fact, I've taught all my female friends how to shoot with the Glock BB gun.

Field strip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lMwlv5cscs

Shooting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTtzSexk94Y

BTW, one last thing about those pocket pistols (KT P3AT & Ruger LCP). The hammer is not internal but exposed to the environment. Pocket lint easily can get in there and jam the gun. Be careful to clean your pockets of lint and inspect the gun before you pocket it.