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Okay, I've got concealment issues.
When I carry, I carry IWB at anywhere from 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock. I usually wear an untucked shirt. The problem is that, despite the fact that I carry a little Bersa .380, there is still a big bulge. You can't really tell it's a gun, but the bulge is obvious. I do get looks.
At first, I figured that people were just assuming it's a cell phone or PDA. I had an experience at Academy, however, that got me rethinking.
I was in the gun dept. at Academy, and I was getting help from an older, male employee on a cable lock. He inquired about its use, and I told him that I have a CHL, but need to be able to secure my handgun in my car, since carrying in school buildings is illegal.
Before he left, he said, "You aren't concealed very well."
I asked him if he knew what the bulge was before he assisted me on a concealed handgun-related purchase.
His reply was, "I figured it was either a gun or that you were shoplifting."

So here's my question: If I'm at a store and an employee or manager asks me to lift my shirt, what is the best course of action?
I was thinking that I was request to see a manager (if the person asking was not a manager), and then say that "I can't legally lift my shirt" but I do have identification for you, and then hand him/her my CHL.
Is this the correct course of action? If not, what?

Maternity clothes

If they think you stole something, tough. They have to actually catch you before they question or detain you. It's not illegal to have a suspicious buldge. Store employees can ask you anything they want, and you are under no obligation to answer any of their questions.

Being a woman, if anyone ever asked you to lift your shirt, I'd hope you'd become quite upset.

"Did you see me stealing anything? No? Then i'm on my way. If you insist on detaining me, I'll have you up on charges for false imprisonment."

I'd also try concealing around 3-4o'clock. Your body will help conceal the gun better.

Venus Pax wrote:His reply was, "I figured it was either a gun or that you were shoplifting."

You could have told him it was "a medical appliance." (use your imagination!)

But, play with the way you carry. Different holster? different location? Even a bit of "misdirection" might work - i.e. a lightweight, ordinary vest worn over the shirt, or a leatherman or cell phone on the belt right next to the holster, "explaining" the bulge under the shirt.

A couple weeks ago, I had a young pawn shop employee (who was showing us a revolver) ask me if I had my permit, and since I did, was I carrying at the moment? I basically told him, "Look, IF I have one, and you can't tell, then I'm doing it right." When he insisted on knowing (he wasn't rude, just overly enthusiastic about the idea, and said he "wouldn't tell anyone") I told him that "Concealed means just that, and I don't discuss it either way, in public, in front of strangers."

Have you tried the 3-5 o'clock positions instead? I can't imagine 12-2 o'clock being comfortable or very concealed.

There is no way I could carry beyond the 3 o'clock. I've tried back there and it just doesn't work on me.
I didn't think about the "medical appliance". I will definitely use that one.

nitrogen wrote:If they think you stole something, tough. They have to actually catch you before they question or detain you. It's not illegal to have a suspicious buldge. Store employees can ask you anything they want, and you are under no obligation to answer any of their questions.

Being a woman, if anyone ever asked you to lift your shirt, I'd hope you'd become quite upset.

"Did you see me stealing anything? No? Then i'm on my way. If you insist on detaining me, I'll have you up on charges for false imprisonment."

I'd also try concealing around 3-4o'clock. Your body will help conceal the gun better.

No, a person only needs reasonable belief to detain a person and investigate ownership of property. They don't have to actually see you conceal an item. IMO, simply observing a bulge does not make reasonable belief, in and of itself.

There is also no such animal as false imprisonment anymore. The charge is false restraint.

I would think remembering your conflict resolution skills and having a better response woud keep the situation described from esclating.

Venus,

maybe your britches are too tight. I buy mine a size larger than I need to help the bulge issue.

just a thought.

If this ever happens to me, I'll politely ask them the purpose of the question - do they suspect me of shoplifting? If so, I'll be glad to be escorted to the scanners - or they can wand me for RFIDs or magnetic strips - and if not, that they politely leave me to my business. If they get pushy, they don't deserve my business anyhow and there will probably be letters sent out.

Under no stretch of the imagination would I lift my shirt up for anyone short of a LEO.

txinvestigator wrote:

nitrogen wrote:If they think you stole something, tough. They have to actually catch you before they question or detain you. It's not illegal to have a suspicious buldge. Store employees can ask you anything they want, and you are under no obligation to answer any of their questions.

Being a woman, if anyone ever asked you to lift your shirt, I'd hope you'd become quite upset.

"Did you see me stealing anything? No? Then i'm on my way. If you insist on detaining me, I'll have you up on charges for false imprisonment."

I'd also try concealing around 3-4o'clock. Your body will help conceal the gun better.

No, a person only needs reasonable belief to detain a person and investigate ownership of property. They don't have to actually see you conceal an item. IMO, simply observing a bulge does not make reasonable belief, in and of itself.

There is also no such animal as false imprisonment anymore. The charge is false restraint.

I would think remembering your conflict resolution skills and having a better response woud keep the situation described from esclating.

This goes against what my lawyer told me when I specifically asked about this situation. Not to start an arugment, but is there specific law or legal finding that supports this? I want to go back to my lawyer and kick his butt if necessary.

(Making the assumption based on your username that you are female.)
Women may need to explore different options for concealed carry since their body shape may not lend itself to the same things that work well for men.

I recommend trying to find a female firearms trainer and see if she has some helpful hints. Here is one such trainer's website. I believe she prefers in front of the hip IWB carry. http://www.corneredcat.com/ Check under "Practical Issues" and "How do I hide this thing?"

txinvestigator wrote:Venus,

maybe your britches are too tight. I buy mine a size larger than I need to help the bulge issue.

just a thought.

Txi - you are a brave man to say that to a lady!

Brave? or deathwish?

Now that winter is approaching (wishful thinking perhaps) and will be wearing longer, baggier cover clothes, has anyone tried the DOH holster from BladeTech? I would think that would lower the butt of the gun to where I can easily reach it, and avoid the awkward angle caused by having hips and a waist.

I would think that an OWB with an oversize untucked shirt over it might work. I will talk to my daughter and see what she uses - she is small, about 5' even and carries a G36.

I know there is at least one outfit that make holsters especially designed for women, can't remember the name right now.

Dave B.