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I have taken my guns to the range 3 times since getting my CHL late FEB. I cant hit the broad side of a barn with these things! I have good sight picture and good trigger control ( things I learned from the rifle team in HS) and I am constantly hitting low and left with the PT111. Can the gun just be that innacurate at 7 yrds? Do some people have to aim high and right with certain guns? I understand my small .380 shouldnt be dead on but Im beginning to think if I ever got into a shootout I'd miss! I know when I shoot my brothers full size 1911 I can do head shots at a pretty good distance. What do you guys think? Should I look into a little more expensive gun than a Taurus or could it be me?

The best 2 things you can do are:

1. Have another good shooter or two shoot your gun. This will help to eliminate the gun as the problem.

2. Have a knowledgeable shooter watch to see if you are doing any number of things that will cause your issue.

It is really not possible to armchair quarterback what you or your gun are doing. Educated guesses can be made based on where your shots are hitting your target but that is all they will be. You need someone to watch you shoot in order to to "fix" any shooter issues you might have.

I have a PT 111, just bought it on Saturday.
Took it to the range right away, and from the get go, mine was sighted in nearly perfect.
I am not the best shot around, but at 7yds, on a standard circle target, I was on average within 5 inches from center bulls-eye.
I did notice, compared to my SW Sigma that the sights are in front of each other, rather than the rear sights are left and right, and the front sight is down the middle, so I had to adjust slightly so my front sight was right above my rear sight.
I do also find the trigger VERY easy, compared to my Sigma, so my first shot was way low left, as I found myself "pulling" across the weapon, rather than squeezing the trigger.
So it could be you, but it may just be the trigger ease (or stiff compared to whatever else you shoot) or it could be the sights are different than what you are used to.

A good way to judge is to ask someone at the range to run a couple of mags through it, and see how their accuracy is with your gun.

Hate to say it but it's not normally the gun. Have you tried changing your stance? That is, from the standard Weaver to say, the isosceles stance. How is your trigger control? If you are right handed it could be that you are squeezing your fingertips while applying trigger pull(Ie: curling your trigger finger to fire).

Here are some links to read. I found them very helpful. Compare what they instruct to what you are doing. Maybe that will help you improve your accuracy:

http://www.marksmanship.info/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob85.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_trai ... tg_100306/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.starreloaders.com/edhall/articlesand.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Try these target to help diagnose any problems you as the shooter may have that contributes to the down & left issue:

If you're a Lefty: http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files/Ta ... Handed.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you're a Right: http://www.reloadbench.com/pdf/files/Ta ... Handed.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And if these don't work, just remember how much you paid for them

But seriously, if you're right-handed then you and I probably have have same problem .... over-tightening grip fingers

All of the above is excellent advise.

The first thing I do with any new gun is to check for accuracy.

What works best for me is to bench rest the gun on a stable surface, align the sights and slowly pull the trigger.
After several shots this way you get a pretty good idea of the guns accuracy.

Another way to tell if you're flinching during the shot is to dry fire while paying close attention to any movement of the muzzle during the trigger pull.(make sure the gun is empty while using this method !!!)

Are you getting a group low left or is it scattred? If the shots are grouping then the sights need to be adjusted your rear needs to move right and your front needs to be shorter. If they are scattered low and left then it is probably shooter error. Try sandbagging the gun and see if that helps. To test for flinch, balance a coin on the slide just behind the front sight do a dry fire and see if the coin stays put, it should. If you are fllinching, the coin will most of the time fall. Just be sure you are DRY firing.

MoJo wrote:To test for flinch, balance a coin on the slide just behind the front sight do a dry fire and see if the coin stays put, it should. If you are fllinching, the coin will most of the time fall. Just be sure you are DRY firing.

That's a good trick. Just tried it with my wedding ring. Question: if it doesn't fall off, but moves slightly one way or the other, could that still indicate a slight flinch in the direction the coin/ring moves? Mine moves ever so slightly to the left (my natural tendency when I miss).

Edited to add: Don't try this with a J-frame revolver. The impact of the hammer on the empty cylinder pops the ring upward like it's been bounced on a trampoline! Almost lost my ring! Then, of course, tried it a second time with gun braced just to be sure it wasn't a massive flinch and same result.

What kind of sights are on the PT111? Are they two dot, or three dot?

If your shots group low and to the left most likely you are jerking the trigger instead of squeezing it.

If your shots group high to the left - say in the 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock position - you are probably anticipating the recoil and pushing the firearm up. This is called riding the recoil. Groups in this area are also caused by lack of follow-through.

If your group is consistent at about 9 o'clock you most likely do not have your finger on the trigger properly. You are probably squeezing at an angle instead of straight back.

If you group is high to the right you may be heeling the firearm - anticipating the recoil and pushing with the heel of your hand.

If your shots group fairly consistently to the right in the 3 o'clock area you are probably thumbing the gun. That is, as the gun goes off you are pushing on the side of the frame with your thumb.

If your group is consistently low, say in the 6 o'clock area, you may be breaking your wrist, that is, anticipating the recoil and cocking the wrist down. Low shots also come from improper follow-through when the shooter relaxes too quickly.

If all the shots are hitting right, low, say in the 4 to 5 o'clock area, you may be tightening your grip just as the gun fires. This is another form of anticipating recoil.

The first thing I would suggest is have a good pistol shooter run the gun through its paces. Chances are real good the gun is fine. I had this problem when I picked up a handgun several years ago after over 20 years without shooting one. I swore up and down the gun was broke and almost sent it back to the manufactuer. A buddy took it from me and put 6 shots in a nice little group in the middle of the target and pronounced the trigger was a little stiff.

If the gun is fine, then try all of the above suggested cures. The best cure I think is good instruction from a good instructor.

thanks,
George

E150GT wrote:I know when I shoot my brothers full size 1911 I can do head shots at a pretty good distance. What do you guys think?

DUH!!!!! Get a 1911!!!

dcphoto wrote:What kind of sights are on the PT111? Are they two dot, or three dot?

1 rear and 1 front sight

So I'll be the lone voice on this one. I'd put my $$ on it being the gun, primarily because I have had the SAME issue with two separate PT111's. That is why I no longer own one. I don't know if it was the way the trigger was or my grip, but I have never had that problem with any other SA pistol.

/ymmv

pbwalker wrote:I'd put my $$ on it being the gun, primarily because I have had the SAME issue with two separate PT111's.

I have only had my PT111 since Saturday, but put 50 rounds through it (or so) and didn't have that issue at all. It was almost dead on (better than I do with the wife's Glock or my Sigma.